Tire Rotation and torquing

Hi again folks. I hope everyone has been doing very well. It's great to see that car masters Ray O, Tegger, Hachiroku, Bruce, and others are still with us. You all provide so much helpful information to so many people. We are all grateful :-)

Well, I rotated the tires yesterday for my second time ever. Damn, that's a bear, one helluva strenuous exercise. It works out your whole body, arms, legs, core. My muscles are aching a day later. I went to bed early at 9 PM, and actually woke up in the middle of the night at 3 AM to eat more food--that's how exhausting tire rotating can be on your body. I never, ever have to wake up in the middle of the night needing to eat. Just lots of aches and total exhaustion {chuckle}

I had no trouble loosening the lug nuts with a 4-way lug wrench, unlike the first time when I rotated the tires last year, when I had to loosen the *super tight* lug nuts screwed on by my Toyota dealer's tech who used some kind of automatic device, instead of a proper torque wrench.

If I ever again have my dealer rotate my tires in the future, I'm going to insist on a torque wrench. As we've mentioned before, Walmart uses torque wrenches, so does Big O Tires, Sears, and others. Inexcusable that my Toyota dealer doesn't. Of course, he's the only Toyota dealer in Columbia, Missouri. Does your Toyota dealer use torque wrenches?

Before untightening the lug nuts on 2 wheels (the front passenger and rear driver-side wheels), I tested their torque reading by setting my torque wrench to 76 and then 90 foot-pounds. The wrench immediately clicked and the lug nuts didn't budge at 76, which is a good sign since 76 foot-pounds is the proper torque for the

2006 Camry's wheels.

With the torque wrench set at 90 foot-pounds, the lug nuts rotated quite a bit, tightening to 90. When I performed this test last year, the wrench still clicked at 90 and the lug nuts didn't move, indicating the lugs were super-tight, possibly because my dealer's tech "guesstimated" torque by using an electrical or pneumatic device, instead of a proper torque wrench. Of course, the lugs may have also "tightened" on their own (gripped the studs with greater force because of temperature, slight rusting, and what not), but I tend not to think this is what happened in this case. The tech should have used a proper torque wrench.

I did the tire rotation yesterday with 21,270 miles on the odometer, which is 380 miles short of 6,000 miles since the last rotation I did.

Of the 20 lug nuts, about a third of them (7) let out a loud screech when I untightened them with the 4-way lug wrench, indicating some rust. Tegger taught me that last year.

Speaking of rust, the hubs showed significantly more rust during this tire rotation, than my first. So Ray O's suggestion to apply a very thin layer of anti-seize on the hubs alone, is a great idea. I will use anti-seize on the hubs next time I rotate the tires. The wheels also stuck a little to the hubs when I tried removing the wheels. Thankfully, the wheels only stuck a little bit, nothing a medium budge couldn't remedy. But I'll definitely use anti-seize next time. Wish I had already had it on hand yesterday.

There was no problem torquing the Camry's rear wheels to 76 foot pounds while the car was on jack stands because I had applied the emergency brake to prevent the rear wheels from moving freely. However, since nobody was around when I wanted to torque the front wheels, I used a 40-pound concrete block to hold down the brake pedal. This prevented the front wheels from rotating freely while torquing them. I must have had that 40-pound concrete block applying pressure to the brake pedal for an entire 30 minutes. Is that wise to do? Could any damage occur to the braking system by holding down the brake pedal for 30 whole minutes?

I didn't want to do the final torquing to 76 foot-pounds while the wheels were just barely touching the ground, because last time when I did that some of the front lugs nuts loosened after a few days and I had to retorque the front wheels. But I noticed the rear wheels were fine last time, and I had torqued them while the rear wheels were still in the air. So this time I used the heavy concrete block to hold down the brake pedal (and engage the front brakes) while the car was still on the jack stands. I hope it was okay to hold down the brake pedal for 30 long minutes while I torqued the front wheels.

Reply to
Built_Well
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My mechanic spins the nuts on with the air wrench adjusted to about 80% of final torque. He finishes with a torque wrench. He then takes the truck out for a spin and checks torque again when he returns. This is an independent mechanic who's obsessive about stuff like this.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

I get free rotations and balances for the life of my tires. WHY would you go through all this shit, when it is so cheap to have OTHERS do it?

Reply to
Sharx35

Once he finds out that you are a LIEbrawl, better YOU check those lug nuts yourself.

Reply to
Sharx35

I'll agree with that. I used to do my own oil changes & lubes (when cars had grease zerts), brake work, exhaust pipe and muffler work, etc. I didn't really save all that much money and had to find a place to ditch the old oil and parts. I pay others to do it now. Want to buy a good set of air tools?

Jack j

Reply to
Retired VIP

Hmmmm...Interesting post

However, I never rotate my tires! I have gotten up to 125,000 on a set of (exceptional Bridgestone) tires without rotating.

I digress however. For your first point, the Toyota dealer not using a torque wrench, they may be using something like this:

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These are *supposed* to torque your nuts (well, not *YOUR* nuts!) to the correct torque. I think when they reach the right torque they kind of ratchet so the tech knows the torque is correct. I have to admit, i checked the torque after someone used these and it was within 2 ft/lbs!

However, I don't trust them since I had a wheel fall off and check them again. It's a good idea to check the torque ~100 miles after having a wheel removed anyway.

Second, I have seen (in a Toyota manual IIRC, and other places), put the wheel on the car, put the lug nuts on, tighten them more than hand tight with a wrench until they bottom out, then put the wheel on the ground and tighten to torque. I usually go about 90 ft/lbs, and haven't had any trouble.

Ray may have a more definitive answer, but this is the way I've been doing it for about 15+ years. Before that I put the wheel on and tightened it until I heard the studs 'scream'...NOT recommended!!! ;)

Reply to
Hachiroku

Loosening torque is generally higher than tightening torque. After you have tightened the lug nuts to 76 foot pounds, it will take more than 76 to loosen them, so that is not a good indicator of whether the lug nuts were tightened properly or not.

Leaving the brakes applied for 30 minutes doesn't harm anything, but it is easier and safer to tighten the lug nuts until the wheel are seated, then lower the vehicle to the ground, and then do the final tightening. This is the method I have used for close to 40 years without any problems. All that cranking while the car is up on stands risks pulling the vehicle off of the stand.

Reply to
Ray O

This is the method I use - works every time.

Reply to
Ray O

I'm thinking about getting a set of torque sticks, although it is a little hard to justify the cost since I'm not in production mode.

90 ft/lbs is a little high for alloy wheels. 76 ~ 80 for alloy, 90 is OK for steel wheels.
Reply to
Ray O

Good. When my mechanic retires, I'm either buying a horse, or bringing my truck to you. :-)

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

What kind of cars are you talking about? I've been changing tires for 45 years using whatever lug wrench is handy. Never had a tire come loose, or had trouble removing it, or warped a rotor. Some alloys, but mostly steel rims. BTW, when my son was working at Just Tires he put 2 new tires on a '97 or '98 Camry. Used a 75 lb torque stick, then a torque wrench to finish because he didn't rely on sticks. Spec was 80. He was always very careful because some of the rims that came in there cost more than I pay for a car. The guy got about 2 blocks before both wheels came of with all 10 studs broken. Towed him back in. The boss called Toyota and was told there was a recall for those studs. Toyota sent new studs and they sent the guy off. Son doesn't remember the extent of fender damage if any, or who paid for it, because he was off delivering tires after the guy first left. He didn't get any heat for the incident. Check your recalls!

--Vic

Reply to
Vic Smith

It's a lot easier if you use your floor jack to hold the car up.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Why not learn to torque the wheels yourself?

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Why not learn to torque the wheels yourself?

Jeff =================

I know how, and I own the tool. What I can't figure out how to do is fit a lift into my crowded garage or my budget. I don't trust floor jacks (saw one collapse once), so I'll always bring the car to a mechanic for stuff like tire rotation. It also gives me and the mechanic a chance to look under the truck for any developing issues.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Damn, Joe, that's the same problem I have! Space and budget. You can always get an outdoor lift.

I don't trust floor jacks (saw one

Get jack stands as well. NEVER work under a jack alone (but you knew that...)

Reply to
Hachiroku

Not worth the trouble or risk. And, I also get some excellent Lake Ontario fishing info from my mechanic. Priceless.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Ever go anywhere near Cicero/Oneida Lake

Reply to
Hachiroku

Usually a few times in September/October after the mobs have left. Great bass & walleye fishing.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Toyota passenger cars.

That is the way I do it when I don't have a torque wrench handy, like when changing a flat. It is possible to develop a feel for the correct torque, although I've found that what feels right to me is a little high for alloy wheels but just right for steel wheels.

Reply to
Ray O

Are you TIGHTENING the wheels to 90 before removing them? If so, that's not a good idea. Torque specs are based on the size of the fastener, so if 76 is the right torque for the stud size, you've just overtightened them if you went up to 90 and then removed them. That sounds like a good way to strip the studs.

Ray

Reply to
ray

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