AC question?

I just bought a 1983 toyota truck.(the other 83 toyota truck needed a new engine and transmission so it's being use for parts now) And it has all the stuff for ac inside the cab. But sometime in it's life someone removed all the stuff for the ac under the hood.Now here is my question I went to the junk yard today and found a 1985 4runner with all the ac stuff under the hood.And I wanted to know if the ac stuff from the 85 4runner will work on my 1983 toyota truck? Thanks Jamie

Reply to
Jamie Mello
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Oh and one more thing the 85 4runner has a 22re engine mine has a 22r.

Reply to
Jamie Mello

As far as AC systems go, see if a later year with R134 will fit. With R12 you'll just have a lot of headaches and empty pockets getting it serviced. For example, I couldn't find the AC hose on rockauto.com for your 85, and old hoses can leak!! Not to mention old moisture saturated drier. Maybe the 95 22RE's 10PA15C bracket will fit your 22R designed with 10P15C.

have a look:

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Reply to
johngdole

Thanks for the input but I can get a good deal on this ac system $150.00 + tax for all.I want to know if I can get it to bolt right up. Or is there going to get a lot of cutting and drilling.

Reply to
Jamie Mello

It should. We're talking about the condenser, the compressor, the receiver-dryer, the hoses, and the hard lines. The compressors may vary year-to-year, so you will need to get the correct hoses. The compressor bracket from a later 22RE should bolt on to your early 22R block. You may need to mount the receiver-dryer on the fenderwell, rather than the radiator brace.

The idle-up circuit is different between the 22R and the 22RE, but not required and can be left off. And remember, "R12 systems work best with R12!"

Reply to
Jeff

It ought to bolt right up. The problem (headache) you will run into is that they will not charge the system for you because they can not use R12 anymore. The system will have to be converted to R134a.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

So will that cost a lot money to get it changed over to r134a?

Reply to
Jamie Mello

As far as I know, it is not a conversion you can make yourself. I'm pretty sure you have to have it done at a shop.

Frankly, I think the reason the truck has no AC components is because a previous owner did not want to pay for the conversion, or started to convert it himself and ran into problems -- one of them being money.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Well I just found out that I can get some stuff on ebay. that is like the r12 stuff. Here is the link.

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Do you guys have any input on this stuff?

Reply to
Jamie Mello

I bought a '87 4X4 PU a few years back that had all of the components but did not work. The previous owner's son had disconnected the wire to the compressor clutch when it quit working.

I took it to my mechanic and he pulled a vacuum on the system and it leaked. He suggested I open up the dash and pull the the evaporator coil and he would check it for me. I ended up replacing the evaporator coil and the expansion valve. I also obtained a conversion kit which had replacement O-rings and the fittings for R134 conversion.

He flushed the system, I installed the O-rings and R134 fittings and he pulled a vacuum on it again. It held the vacuum okay so he charged it with R134. It worked as it was supposed to but on a hot day it only cooled the cab marginally. I used it that way for two more summers and then I sold the truck.

I forget the exact amount of money I spent but I think it was around $350.00 US and would have been much more if I hadn't done much of the work.

Reply to
Anyolmouse

So everthing sould bolt right up? Is is there any mods I need to do? I can get r12 on ebay. Thanks

Reply to
Jamie Mello

You can call around to see if a place will fill it up with R12 without costing an arm and a leg. R12 is definitely more expensive to service than R134, but I don't know how much or even need to fortunately. I had enough with $600 a pop services on flimsy Ford R12 systems with garter spring clips (again, I heard prices came down). AC service for R134 is about $100.

Many shops will tell you R12->134 conversion isn't a sure way to go. So instead of retrofit R12 it may be more cost effective to get an old but true R134 system because:

  1. According to the specs on rockauto.com, the 85 condenser is about
28% smaller than the 95 (R134). So you'll lose efficiency with R134 because you need a larger condenser with R134.

  1. The R12 hoses are NOT barrier hoses, so R134 will slowly leak out leaving you with no refrigerant.

  2. You cannot use the old drier. Because it was saturated and it was not made for R134 (will disintegrate). If there was moisture in the old system, you may also have hydrochloric acid in the old system as a byproduct of reaction with R12.

  1. The 10P15C compressor may not be suitable for conversion to R134 so you have to check into this with an AC shop. If the old compressor isn't leaking by now.

Why not price out a R134 system off a newer 4Runner using the 22RE engine and check with an AC shop to see if a newer system will fit how much to refill it compared to R12 before you decide?

Reply to
johngdole

Like Anyolmouse said you'll need some new parts and the efficiency of the smaller R12 condenser will be poor. And you will need to have the vacuum pulled, just look at the Interdynamics FAQ videos. I think they simplified too much the conversion process and made it sound too easy. On newer R12 systems during the transition years it would work, but I have doubts on earlier systems.

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Reply to
johngdole

The "general public" has not been able to buy R-12 for about 10 years - legally, at least, unless you take the time and effort to go get a refrigerant technician license.

But it still happens - There are people illegally importing 1-pound cans of R-12 from Asia (or from illegally hoarded stockpiles unless the hoarder has the proper licenses) and selling it on E-Bay all the time. If the EPA wanted to start making an example out of people they could have a field day setting up stings with unlicensed buyers - at a starting fine of $100K a pop, IIRC.

Properly licensed technicians still can possess and buy R-12 in bulk cylinders (30-lb or larger) legally, but it's pricy - $500 to $800 for that 30 pounds. And they can install it in your truck if the refrigeration system is nice and tight - no detectable leaks.

I would be wary of using Freeze-12, only because they haven't done long term durability tests with some of these exotic blends, and no manufacturer (or rebuilder) will warrantee the new (or newly rebuilt) compressor if you use anything other than the designed R-12 or R-134a in it. Plus, you have to use separate tools and recovery equipment for Freeze-12 that nobody local to you may have - but all shops still have their old R-12 gear.

My opinion - make the system nice and leak tight, and stay with R-12. You may have to change an expensive rubber hose or aluminum "hard line" to fix a tiny seep leak that used to be an acceptable loss of a pound or two a year - but with today's prices that leak could translate to $100+ a year (or more) of lost refrigerant plus the labor to top off the system, so you have to insist on tight.

The main reason to stay with it is R-12 works SO MUCH BETTER than R-134a under identical operating conditions. They have to use oversized components to cover the inefficiency of R-134a.

R-12 is more expensive, but the price should stay fairly stable for many more years. It is still made and widely used overseas, where they ignore such inconvenient things like the Kyoto Protocol...

And as old cars are dismantled they are recovering the R-12 at the junkyards, and when old building HVAC or refrigeration systems are dismantled large amounts of R-12 are recovered. That will provide a reclaimed R-12 supply for years.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

What I mean by getting it off ebay is I can get stuff that can replace r12. But still work as if it was r12 get it? Thanks Jamie

Reply to
Jamie Mello

You can buy the "drop-in replacement" refrigerants, but there's not a whole lot of support for them in the service world outside of large cities. Before you do it, find a shop in your area that can support the system, do refills and diagnostics.

If you can't find a mechanic in your immediate area to do it for you, you will be forced to figure it out yourself and buy some very expensive tools (and some safety gear) to DIY service it properly.

Refrigerant Recovery machine, at least one empty 30-Lb recovery cylinder, refrigerant filters for the recovery machine inlet, 1/3 Hp oil ballast vacuum pump, electronic micron vacuum gauge, Recharging Gauge Manifold and hoses, electronic leak detector, 50CF or larger high-pressure dry nitrogen cylinder, nitrogen regulator, a couple of direct-read thermometers, a big box fan for testing while parked (to simulate winds at speed), assorted flare wrenches and special tools and screwdrivers, Safety goggles and heavy gloves...

There's $5,000+ before you blink if you just walk in with a wish list and get all new - $2,000+ even if you shop around for some serious bargains and Closeout Sale prices, haunt pawn shops and used tools dealers.

If you aren't doing it every day as a working mechanic, and/or supporting a small fleet of cars, that's a hell of an investment for tools that'll only get used once every two or three years.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

The replacement for R12 is R134a. R134a is not as efficient as R12, therefore an R12 system using R134a will not cool as well. Systems using 134 are designed differently (larger) so that they acheive the same level of cooling.

As a practical matter, the average Joe on the street is not capable of installing R12 on his own and it is impossible for the average Joe to do this legally. In order to have and use R12, a license is required. You can go to the corner autoparts store and buy R134a, but as another practical matter, you will not be able to load an empty system properly. The stuff you can buy at rthe corner store is designed to maintain a serviceable system, but you need to establish a servicable system, and this is an entirely different matter. You need professional help to establish a servicable system. (I also need help to establish a working system, and I can maintain the system in a servicable condition using stuff I bought down the street at the autoparts store.)

I suggest that buying refridgerant off of eBay is a misguided attempt to save money. IF you had the skills and equipment to create a working system where there currently is none, then _maybe_ eBay would be a good place to shop, but I think you have significant hurdles that should be leading you to professional help.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Thanks for all your help. There is a place a few miles from my house that said they will refill my ac with r12 for about $150.00. Does this sound about right? Thanks Jamie

Reply to
Jamie Mello

Yes.

It also sounds like a good place to ask what they would charge to rebuild your system. They will do it without taking the smog equipment off.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

While you're at it, get the shop to put in new receiver/drier, expansion valve (don't use that 20-year old valve), new seals, oil, and re-crimp barrier hoses in place of existing hoses that are probably shot. Make sure you use AC Delco if not OEM. Then recharging the system for $150 actually sounds pretty good than several years ago when I had to pay big bucks!!!

Reply to
johngdole

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