RAT Type 1 DTM Cooling Setup Q's

After perusing http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/ and checking out the new DTM Cooling setup for Type 1 engines, I must say that I am pretty
impressed. It would seem that those folks have found a way for cooling our aircooled motors that is better than the stock setup. For those who have this setup or have more information, please share your thoughts!
I got 3 major questions about this DTM system though. For those of us running heater boxes, does this sytem provide any air to get our heaters going? For those of us who like to use the Berg dual carb linkage, is this system compatible with that? And finally, does this system use the flaps assembly from our Doghouse style cooler as well as the stock style thermostat?
Boy, if this system really does cool better than stock, provide for the use of a Type IV oil cooler, as well as meet my concerns as stated above, I'll start saving to make this my own Christmas gift! It would be nice to be able to raise some CR knowing that the extra heat output is being taken care of.
Geoffe Elias -74 Super Beetle
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geoffers wrote:

I have had the original DTM kit in my house for a while, enough for me to take a good look at it. Some of the special parts I have in my upright-converted T4. (I went the Joe Cali way, following the instructions in his book.. and I'm happy with what I got).
The stock T4 cooling system isn't very good to begin with, in my opinion. The DTM setup is MUCH better in so many ways.

AFAIK, you can still get a fan shroud with air outlets for heat exchangers. Check with Jake, I'm not 100% sure.

The flaps you can (and should) use, but to get the thermostat to work, you needed to rig up something yourself. This was the status in the days of the original DTM shroud, when Joe Locicero still made them. (R.I.P.) I sent Joe a couple of drawings for a thermostat solution, and I know one of them got his creative juices flowing and at least one such setup was built and installed in an engine... in Australia I seem to remember? I could be wrong about the location. It was one of Joe's customers. I didn't want any compensation or recognition for what I did, so I don't know if it ever really took off. Joe just sent me a picture of the completed engine with my thermostat solution on it. We never had time to truly finish the design and nake an easily reproduceable product, when he had to undergo major surgery. As a result of that (post-operation complications or something), he passed away.

It will be much better than stock. In stock form, the T4 never made more than 100-110hp (and that in a VW-Porsche 914). The bus version topped out at around 80hp (well 78 or so). And the bus is a lot heavier. Compare that to the 150-200 and 200+ hp engines of Raby's Aircooled Technology, equipped with the DTM and running cool all day on the freeway... I bet the cooling setup can take care of most of your needs. IF YOU BUILT THE DAMN THING RIGHT. ;)
Jan

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That would be perfect, plenty of good even cooling as well as a proper warmup with a thermostat. Even without the thermostat solution, it looks like Joe really created an outstanding design. Sadly, such innovation seems to be lost among the general crap floating around the in the aircooled world these days.
I've been eyeing Berg's shroud modification kit to enable use of the type IV cooler, but it seems to make more sense just to get the DTM kit and use the type IV cooler with that. It would be nice if they could make the shroud-mounted carb linkage style compatible with the DTM kit; from what I have seen, it doesn't look compatible though.
Geoffe Elias -74 Super Beetle

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PS: the Berg linkage is not compatible with a DTM. There are many folks out there that HATE the Berg linkage due to a # of problems. There are also folks that love it.
John Aircooled.Net Inc.

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Oh yea, I wasn't sure if the subject said Type 1 when I replied to this thread, I didn't catch that and what I wrote was based on my personal experience with the type FOUR DTM. I haven't seen the type ONE DTM yet.
Sorry if I gave misleading info. Just spotted the error now.
Jan
geoffers wrote:

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Go to http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?fG and ask away. Read the top sticky announcement, too.
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FWIW, I'm adding a RAT T-1 DTM to my personal engine this winter. I have been a proponent of the stock doghouse system for a LONG time, but do know a good thing when I see it
John Aircooled.Net Inc.
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Are you going to use the carbon fiber version of it? Also, will that option be available for sale soon at your site?
-Geoffe Elias -74 Super Beetle
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as soon as it's available I'll add it to our site as an option, but I'm using the standard one. I believe carbon fiber is super strong and super light, but the advantages in THIS application are not even close to worth it IMO. IOW, how much weight are you going to save? Maybe 1lb.
Is the extra strength of a carbon fiber shroud going to prevent cracking? No, the regular one is not stressed and doesn't have cracking issues.
So the only reason for carbon fiber for THIS application is so you look cool. I have a VERY EXPENSIVE (Over $8k) engine in my car, but will not be using carbon fiber for the shroud.
John Aircooled.Net Inc.

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The Type I DTM took me 8 months of trial and error to beat the best stock system in head temps. It was very easy to beat stock on ultimate cooling on just one side of the engine (right side) but the left side took alot of work. I finally incorporated airfoils, and another diverter and the cooling was cured.
The TI DTM is not sold with a thermostst and won't be. These systems are hand built and already suck up a tremendous amount of labor to assemble. Flaps and a Tstat could be added, however the cost would exceed what anyone could pay. I finished development of this system to be a benefit for performance engines that warm up much quicker than stock, and last winter I measured just how each system warmed up on the same engine, at the same temp in a stone cold 28 degree dyno cell (reversed the exhaust fan and pumped in cold air)
The difference was about 3-5 minutes different on oil temps and maybe 1-2 minutes different on head temps. basically the thermostat was used by VW for a great reason. When I tested the difference in the flaps and T stat for cooling I saw temps rise(maybe 5-8 degrees) and keep the same splits as without the flaps. If someone wants flaps they could arrange them on their own. I have a test version of them but there were so many ways that they could fail and CREATE an issue on the DTM that I have not incorporated them.
Once again, remember that I was testing temps on all 4 cylinders, in 3 different locations on each cylinder and head and inputting data every 2 minutes of engine run time. The same thing was done in the 66 test car but only with 4 head temp gauges.
The shroud is NOT compatible with Berg linkage on purpose.
The DTM diverts 17-20% more air through the cooler cavity than a stock doghouse, with about 10% more velocity. That coupled with the larger TIV oil cooler is a winning combination for oil temps.
The one thing I will add is that ALL ENGINES ARE VASTLY DIFFERENT! I quickly noted after testing 4 engines with the same shroud (aftermarket heads, different cylinders, different shimmage) that it was impossible to create a Type I system that is perfect for everyone!!! My shroud works better with aftermarket heads with less fins (it booosts pressure and then my airfoils and diverters do their job better). Some people will see huge gains on head temps and even temps all around the engine, while some people will see less of a gain. Everyone will benefit from the added air to the oil cooler, as well as the larger cooler overall.
I have put everything I possibly can into this system, and finally found the middle ground that will help enthusiast cool their engines better. The one thing to remember is that COOLING CAPABILITY MUST BE ATTAINED BEFORE ANY COOLING SYSTEM WILL BE EFFECTIVE! On the Type I hundreds of things effect this capability, some that we will never encounter. There will always be guys with misconfigured engines that are heat generators, and mistuned engines that will operate on the brink of meltdown. No cooling system will help those engines.
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