Starter Woes-again

I replaced my starter (in my 77 Bug) with a rebuilt one. I bench tested it and it works. I connected all the wires (plus a ground) under the car and it works.

I installed it in the car, and it clicks, doesn't turn over. I take it out and replaced the bushing. The bushing went in a little too easy, basically a slip fit. Replaced the starter, same thing just clicks.

Am I missing something? Is it possible that the starter shaft is not aligned and it's actually missing the bushing not allowing the solenoid to fully extend?

Please help...

tia,

Reply to
Mel P.
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If you were able to bolt it on, the shaft is permanently resting inside the bushing. The shaft doesn't move in and out. Only the gear does.

Check your ground strap between transmission and car body. Maybe it's a bad ground. Or corroded wire terminal for the small wire. I've seen that cause these symptoms. Corrosion hiding under the wire insulation and connector insulation, where you can't see it. Replace the connector.

Don't run the starter outside of the car. The shaft needs to be supported by the bushing in the transmission case, otherwise the internal parts in the starter will short. Only the rare autostick started uses a self supported shaft, the shaft doesn't even reach the bushing.

Do you have a correct size bushing? It should be tight to the tranny case, but an easy slip around the starter shaft. Lube it up good with grease.

Reply to
Jan Andersson

This a a common problem. the small wire from the key develops high resistance. Hence less voltage gets to the solenoid , not enough to fire it. the cure is adding another relay , I use a Ford firewall style. It mounts near the battery and sends a stronger impulse to the small terminal on the starter solinoid. It works!

Reply to
troll

The correct way to fix it is to replace the bad wire or wire terminal. It will work great for another 40 years. Don't make the system more complicated by adding relays and more corrosion prone wire connections. It is unnecessary.

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

Both fixes work so read up and do what you want. The selenoid system is simple and does work well. Bad grounds should be replaced anyway so do check that out also. I sometimes run extra ground wires on other systems also as that is usually the fix of a lot of electrical problems and it can't hurt. See speedy jim's site also. Dennis

Reply to
Dennis

I like my fixes to be extra reliable so I install TWO relays! One for the solenoid and one for the first relay!! It's really safe that way!!!!

I also put two "Baby on Board" stickers on my bumper!

Reply to
Michael Cecil

I agree. I've worked on enough hack-job wiring repairs to advise AGAINST doing this. It seems that many people think a pair of pliers and a plastic covered terminal are all it takes to make a wiring fix.

The RIGHT way to fix it is to replace the terminal or wire and solder and shrinkwrap everything. Throw away the plastic covers on the terminals, use a couple layers/sizes of shrinkwrap instead.

Do it right and you won't have to do it again.

Funny story on the whole extra relay job, just a couple nights ago a gal shows up with a bug that won't run right. I'm watching the thing idle, hunting all over the place. Then it just..died. As soon as it quit I pull the wire off the coil, and....no power. Both idiot lights on the speedo head are illuminated. Turn the key off, back on..and I hear something buzzing in the engine compartment. It was the cut off solenoid on the carb, buzzing away for a few seconds before it went silent again. As it turns out, at some point someone installed an alarm on this vehicle and cut the main lead from the ignition switch to the ignition coil and put a relay into the circuit. I assume the alarm broke, because there was no alarm present when I started looking into the problem and what was done next is the relay was bypassed in a really schlock-job way, one side of the signal coil and the main supply to the relay were tied together, the other side of the signal coil was hooked to ground, and the load side of the relay remained untouched. The signal coil in the relay was intermittently failing, sending a pulsing current down the wire to the ignition coil, in turn turning the idle cutoff solenoid into the crude equivalent of a "mixture control solenoid" and sending the ignition system an intermittent power supply. Needless to say, it ran like crap, when it ran at all.

I dumped the relay, ran a couple new wires from the fuse block and ignition switch to get rid of the 'hack jobs', readjusted the timing and idle and away she went.

Chris

Reply to
halatos

i agree with Yawn, 100%

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

I'm just getting interested in these little beasts again but have been playing with Studebakers for years and there is a lesson I've learned and keeps being reinforced. I've had FAR more trouble with "improvements" that people have made to these cars over the years than with anything the factory did. Aside from when there has been a real technological improvement (such as electronic ignition)it seems like it's always better to fix what went wrong and bring it back to the way the designers intended it to be than to try to McGiver a fix.

The fix may work, and the Ford type solenoid isn't a bad idea, but it's better to just repair what is wrong.

Jeff DeWitt

Reply to
Jeff DeWitt

I really appreciate all the input. But why does it work if I have it pulled of the bell housing with the original wires connected. I agree it may be a bad ground since I ran a jumper for that.

I haven't tried anything since the night of my post. But hopefully tomorrow, I can take a look and run a new ground.

thanks aga>> >>

Reply to
Mel P.

I agree.... a solenoid in the system isn't a bad idea, but covering up a bad system with a solenoid, to me, is...

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

Actually I did run two solenoids once. The second one was used to charge and isolate a second battery which was used to power the radio and some other 12v so The starter battery would still work if I used to much power with the engine off. That worked well also. Dennis

Reply to
Dennis

Ahh, that's different. You weren't trying to work around something that was wrong, you were adding a feature!

Jeff DeWitt

Reply to
Jeff DeWitt

"I really appreciate all the input. But why does it work if I have it pulled of the bell housing with the original wires connected. I agree it may be a bad ground since I ran a jumper for that.

I haven't tried anything since the night of my post. But hopefully tomorrow, I can take a look and run a new ground. "

You need to keep in mind that you have two grounds to consider here. One is from the battery to the body, under the back seat. The other is from the transaxle to the body, under the car. If either one is bad it could cause starting problems. Pull the negative cable from the battery, unbolt the cable from the body, and check the cable. Polish up the connectors, clean the fasteners and put it back together. Do the same with the braided ground strap from the transaxle to the body

Your other potential source of trouble is the positive cable. You should have a direct run from the battery to the starter. If either end has a corroded connector the starter may not get enough current to run..

The starter circuit isn't terribly complicated aside from the seatbelt interlock(not sure if 1977 had this or not...). Keep in mind you can bypass the ignition switch(and simplify troubleshooting) by running a heavy gauge test lead from the positive cable terminal to the solenoid connection at the starter, but be sure transaxle is in neutral before you try this, otherwise you may find that in the process of testing your ride will run your ass over.

Good luck with it.

Chris

Reply to
halatos

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