the Good Oil Filter kit

Thanks for all the input, guys. I've been reading the information and considering the group wisdom and slowly getting my head wrapped around how this works. Forgive my slowness -- the VW engine is new to me. Heck, the tools are new to me. You guys have been working on these engines since before dirt was invented. You were probably the kids hanging out behind the auto shop smoking cigarettes while I was trying to keep from flunking English, watching Shrimpenstein on TV, and trying to feel up the neighborhood girls.

Here's what I've learned so far. Probably full of holes and assumptions and misunderstandings, so corrections and amplifications are invited.

This is certainly Engine 101 to most RAMVA-ites.

As I understand it, you plug up the existing exit hole in the oil pump. The oil has to have someplace to go, so a new pump cover with an exit opening is mounted. We're talking pressure, so the oil line needs good fittings and strong hose that won't blow off. AN type fittings seem to be accepted. Aircooled.net offers blue hose, Gene Berg provides braided stainless steel covered Teflon hose. Steel-braid-covered Neoprene is also used. The exit hose from the pump cover goes to a high-pressure screw-on filter which is mounted somewhere handy. With my foresight I'll probably mount it right where it makes getting to the #3 spark plug impossible.

New oil pumps are available, too, with their exits already blocked. I'm not certain why there are so many sizes and choice of materials (steel vs aluminum). Need to do more reading on this.

On single relief cases, the return (filtered) oil goes to a place on the engine case that has been drilled and tapped to take a similar fitting. This is done to an existing plug on the driver's side of the pulley. Gene Berg sells the tools, as do others, for this work. It does not seem to be too difficult, but the process of drilling and tapping with forced air providing positive pressure in the case to blow chips out looks all kind of messy and fraught with possible blunders. Berg sez, "It is possible to drill and tap the case together without getting any shavings in the case. To receive our exclusive copyrighted instruction at the time you buy a full flow kit from us request part number "INSD/T" and we will provide it for free." Otherwise, buy the instruction book -- fair enough.

For dual-relief cases, there is a second option: Aircooled has a "slick adapter" that provides return. You unscrew a big ol' plug under the engine case and screw in the adaptor.

But John writes, "the engine oil goes thru the oil cooler all the time. This results in slower warmup times, and we remind you to have your engine's thermostat and flaps operational and adjusted to get the engine temp up above 170 degrees [F, or 77C] as quickly as possible to reduce engine wear from oil that's too cool! This is not as good as the proper method of full-flow which is to drill and tap the case, but it is an option," and ". . .you should be aware that oil temp sensors in the rear relief plug are not able to be used."

"How the engine works" at

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(thanks, Scott) shows how the oil control valves direct the output of the oil pump as a function of temperature (actually oil pressure which is related to temperature if I understand it correctly). Combining John's cautionary note with this information suggests to me that the drilled and tapped engine case return hole option brings the oil back to a place where the oil control valves can still do their voodoo. But I'm not clear on that. John's caveat about the adapter seems to be related to sending the oil through a cooler, rather than a filter, so I am not certain whether the adapter defeats the oil control valves, and whether the filter system provides enough cooling to worry about.

But, here in SoCal, when the Santa Ana winds are blowing hot, dry air off the inland valleys in September, and temperatures are over 100F (38C), and the Wonderbus is hauling kids down the highway, I can't help but wonder if I should expand my oil considerations by adding more than just a good filter system, but also a temp sender, and additional cooling -- done right.

So tapping that case seems to be the best way to go.

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot
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To this I have to reply with a Frazier quote:

"Some boys go to College, But we think they are wussies. For they get all the knowledge, and we get all the... oomptah-oomptah-oomptah dududududu...."

Jan

Reply to
Jan

Yes. And some plug teh case passage immediately next to it, where the oil no longer will flow to. Because oil would still fill the passage, from the opposite side and it will be under pressure. This oil MIGHT leak past the case and oil pump mating surface. (Never happened to me though).

Right.

I'd keep the filter away from teh engine bay, it produces heat and heat is what you want to keep out from the engine room. You can even use the filter to COOL the oil if you place it somewhere where it sees fresh air draft, under the car. Away from the exhaust pipes.

Steel is stronger and doesn't wear as fast. Aluminum is BETTER because it has the same (approximately) thermal expansion rate as the engine case around it = no leaks. On most stock and street engines, a 26mm pump is all you need. 30mm and

32mm will generate too much pressure, which you will need to know how to deal with. (It gets complicated from here and it's irrelevant in this case so I'll skip it)

Right. This is the preferred way.

Right again. You have now been informed of the downsides of this. And now you know why drilling and tapping is better.

That's correct. The engine oil flow path will not be changed in any way, the only section of stock oil passage that isn't used annymore, is a straight "pipe" section with no holes or control valves etc. so it doesn't have any effect.

John's adapter is a return adapter. Returning the oil back into the case AFTER it has made it's detour through an external filter. Then it will

*all* go through the oil cooler. If the oil was cold, and you revved the engine up, the cooler and seals will most likely blow. Because there is no "overpressure safety valve" in place anymore.

If you do ful flow filtration, it will be easy to extend the "loop" with an external cooler later, if your engine temps seem to indicate need for one. A temp sender would be a nice touch. Place it in the oil sump cover plate, NOT in the oil line. Requires welding a bung to the sump plate. A neat way to get a TEMP warning light (that really is all you need) is the Gene berg oil dipstick temp sensor. It hooks up to your exixting oil PRESSURE warning light wire in teh engine bay, so no need to run extra wires to the front of the car. When oil reaches a predetermined temp (too hot) the oil PRESSURE light in your dash will start blinking. Very neat, no matter if it's oil pressure or oil temperature, you STILL should stop on teh side of the road immediately and see what is causing it. And because it's blinking instead of lihghting up steadily, you will know it's a TEMP warning, not pressure.

Yes. One word of caution though: There is not a whole lot of room for a pump cover with hose outlet in a bus, where you have the rear engine support bar in place. I test fitted these just a few days ago for a customer, and I can't see how it could be done. There's just not enough room to attach an oil line to the pump cover with an outlet fitting. Something has to be modified. ANYONE ELSE DONE IT??

Jan

Reply to
Jan

Ok, you pretty much got it. Tapping the case is still the best way. The oil is introduced back into the case right above the valve so the functionality of it is still retained.

I still maintain that a Berg oil pump (plugged version) is the way to go. They use Shadek pumps which are inspected to make sure the bodies are the right diameter for a tight fit. This is a critical check that many other vendor's don't bother doing. They machine the body down to get the tightest gear to cover fit. And they o-ring the bodies as insurance to eliminate any internal leaking back into the sump. And they are still priced reasonable.

RT

Reply to
Raymond Lowe

Wouldn't we want that additional cooling to be in the existing oil cooler's loop so that the engine's oil control valves will do what they are supposed to do? This would let the engine warm up faster, yes no, and help avoid:

Moving on:

I'm surprised no one makes such a thing for sale. Anyone on RAMVA willing to do this job for a fee? I don't own a welding rig and would probably burn down the house if I got one.

[snip]

Always a good fallback position. I do like to watch meters, though. Gives me a chance to see how close to being too darn hot the engine is, and allow me the chance to plug in additional oil cooling in the loop as mentioned.

This does indeed appear to be a crucial point. It is so crucial that I am surprised that none of the full-flow filter kit vendors mention it. I await feedback from others to if it is solvable.

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

.................Hey Jan or anyone else, I want to mount my oil temp sensor somewhere on the case that's inside the engine compartment. I don't have a problem with your suggestion of placing it in the sump plate except that it's too unprotected there. Given that I'm going to be splitting the case pretty soon, where would you drill & tap for it on the case? Should I measure the oil's temp before or after it gets to the oil cooler is what I'm wondering about. Also, what would be wrong with placing it in the outflow line from my remotely mounted oil filter? I really want to mount it directly on the case if possible, maybe somewhere close to where the oil pressure sending unit is located.

Reply to
Tim Rogers

Yeah, what he said: what's wrong with putting it there? Would the reading be too pessimistic? Optimistic? What should really concern people is head temperature. Run FOUR of 'em. :)

Reply to
jjs

IF a way can be found to mount a hose fitting that won't interfere with the Wonderbus's rear engine support. Otherwise this is just academic, alas.

Thanks for the information.

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

Yes we would, but achieving that is a step trickier. In most cases, when the engine *needs* an additional cooler, it is "enough" to put it in the same loop with the oil filter. It will then help overall cooling (the part that is considered overheating) and teh stock cooler and control valve would take care of the rest.

ANYWAY, this is a moot point, because the level of engine performance we are talking about here, does NOT warrant an external cooler. If the engine overheats, there is a problem. Either something went wrong, or the engine was built wrong. Mismatched parts, sizes, too much compression, too low octane gasoline... missing tin pieces, running lean.... An extra cooler will only hide those problems, not fix any of them. The first thing I do when building a high performance street engine, is replace the stock doghouse type 1 cooler with it's type 4 counterpart. They are wider, but use the same bolt and passage pattern. The shroud needs modification though. (welding or pop riveting involved).

I could do them. OR, you could drill and tap the case, below the oil level. Like, next to the thermostat bracket. Out of way so no road debris could snag it or the wires.

The Berg dipstick actually makes the warning light blink when the temp is reaching critical level, and will light up the bulb continuously when you have crossed the line. So I have heard. I don't have one on my own cars. I use a thermometer rod through the dipshit tube, one wire running to the glovebox where I have a digital meter, with an adjustable alarm temp.. once thge set temp limit is reached, it makes a very loud, extremely annoying beeping sound. Like an alarm clock. No need to watch a gauge at all :)

I would like to hear too. Keeping my eyes peeled. I mainly deal with bugs, but every now and then I get buses in the shop. Like now, 1 done, and 1 waiting for it's turn, engine under construction. And teh owner asked about minor power mods, and filtration. I chose a W100 cam and test fitted the full flow pieces... no go. Close, but not close enough.

By the way, there are pumps available with both outlet and inlet adapters in the COVER. No need to tap the case or use John's return adapter. Haven't test fitted one, but the way the outlet and inlet are located off-center, they might clear the rear support. And not having to drill and tap the case is a nice bonus for those who are intimidated by it :)

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

I'd put it in the sump. Perhaps through the case wall right next to the thermostat bracket.

Putting it in the oil passage somewhere: If you put it directly in teh flow, it would BLOCk the passage to a great extent. If you used an adapter, perhaps a tee fitting in the pressure sensor line, you would get no FLOW to the temp sensor. Plus it would be far away from the moving oil, you'd get a lower reading.

The one place I can think of that would give you a true reading of the oil temps for MOST of the oil, is at the bottom of the sump where most of the oil pools.

Regardless of where you measure however, you are not so interested in the absolute temperature you see. You are more interested in CHANGE, compared to an initially determined "safe" reading -whatever that is. (If your engine ever ran at acceptable temps to begin with ;) )

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

...............Right now, it's in a T fitting with the oil pressure sending unit. If I go out and drive around town for say a half hour, it eventually reads about 180 to 200 deg F. If I flog the crap out of it on hot day at lets say 80+ mph for over a half hour, it'll go to 220.....maybe 240. I don't remember getting it any higher than that. The oil temp does seem go up to reasonable reading as I'd expect but because it's isolated in that T fitting, it takes a long time to get a reading that means anything.

..........So you think it would be good to drill & tap into the sump from the side of the case?..........hmmmm.

Reply to
Tim Rogers

There's ALWAYS a way.

1) get an aluminum pump cover with the "standard" outlet that would point to the right when installed, right towards the right side engine support bolt. 2) machine the top of the cover flat, enough to punch through to the channel that once was the outlet channel. Weld more material in there, around it. 3) drill a new hole at a suitable angle so the outlet, when equipped with a hose fitting, would point *past* the engine support bolt, instead of straight towards it. It can be made to point outwards more, plus at 10 or 11 o'clock to clear any obstacles. Tap the hole for the 3/8 NPT thread as usual. Machine the pump side flat again, as it may have gotten warped in the welding process.

Same can be done to a cast iron cover, but it's tougher material to work with.

or you could risk nightmare of warping and weld a bung to a stock cover, at a suitable angle, and drill a hole through it for oil flow.

OR you could leave the pump as is, and use the full flow drill and tap trick on the case, to use it as an OUTLET instead of inlet hole. Then you'd use a smaller drill bit and tap, and plug the smaller passage deeper in there, through the same hole you just tapped. That's the main oil galley. Just tap it and plug it with a threaded "blind" plug. Now you need a return path... Look at the oil pressure sender location. Right next to it, a little towards the shroud, there's yet another aluminum plug. Covering a hole that's begging to be drilled and tapped for a return line fitting.... The oil relief valve would still be in use by the way.

Oh the possibilities are endless!

:D

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

Yep :) Been there, done that.

Umm.. I didn't say it's a great idea ;) But it would work. Don't know how much material there is. Maybe a thicker section of case wall can be found elsewhere. Well I just went and looked, the wall is pretty thin everywhere. If I were to do this, I'd weld some more material on teh outside of the case and *then* drill and tap it.

(the sump plate begins to look more and more attractive, if you botch it up completely, you can get a replacement and start over... and you can do it without having to fear shavings...or, as Mike insinuated earlier, you can have one made for you by someone and just mail the modified sump plate to you.)

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

Oh yea, you must also see to it that the oil pickup filter screen will fit in there together with the sender. I'd have the bung welded on the inside of the sump plate so it would get in deeper, then a hole needs to be drilled through the bottom of the filter screen. The sender tip would then go through the hole and be placed right in the flow of oil, but off center and not obstructing flow to the pickup tube.

if a bung was welded on the outside of the sump plate, the sender would not go so deep into the case, and possibly the filter screen body can be left untouched. But then the oil that reaches the sender will not be in motion, but instead it will be the "sludge area" between the plate and filter screen. I guess it would work, it did "work" for me many years ago. I just didn't have anything to compare the readings to.

I like the dipstick sender idea best. Zero modifications to the engine, and sender is in the sump where the oil collects. -Right where I want it.

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

Someone please double-check my thinking with these, it's way too late to give detailed instructions on something like this. God forbid, I may be wrong! I just rotated some spare case halves in my hands and studied them.

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

Would you call that the bung-hole? :-)

"I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq!

Reply to
Shaggie

Insinuated? Heck, I'll even /pay/!

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

[snip]

Point taken.

[snip]

Anyone confirm this?

Who sells such things?

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

[snip]

They are indeed. I e-mailed John at Aircooled about this little mechanical interference issue and asked if he had a workaround. He replied,

". . . that's why our 68-71' bus kit has fittings to clear the mustache bar."

Problem, apparently, solved.

Reply to
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliot

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:23:37 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott" ran around screaming and yelling:

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JT

Reply to
Joey Tribiani

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