Alternator?

You're right in that: the alternator charges the battery, so that you always have a charged battery to start the car. So, correct charging of the battery is dependant of the accumulator, but also of the battery and the connection in between (voltage regulator and wires).

I don't know where you're living, but batteries 'lose' some capacity in a cold environment. For a good battery, that's not a problem, for an old one, it can be. It's quite easy to check with a volt-meter: the battery itself should give about 12V (with the engine off), but it needs around

Groetjes,

Maarten

Maarten

Thank you so much for your reply. Even with my lack of technical know-how I actually feel like I could go and check this out for myself now.

I notice a bit of dutch round your posting. I'm in Budel, just south of Eindhoven. You're right about the cold and I don't think all the moisture in the air is helping either!

Groetjes

Tim

Assuming the alternator isn't working (still what I'm guessing) it is useful to know that many Volvo alternators have a separate module in them that includes the brushes and regulator. If yours is one of them, it is much more economical to replace the module than to replace the whole alternator. The module is usually called the "regulator" and is available from Bosch on the ones I'm familiar with.

Mike

You may also check that the battery , alternator, and all ground straps and wires are clean and tight. Sometimes a connection gets corroded and/or shakes loose.

Jack

Group,

Tim mentioned a bunch of flickering lights a few days ago, but did not mention warning lights during this morning's ride when car would not restart. Usually, no matter if the cause if battery or alternator, the charging warning lamp (looks like battery icon) should light.

Tim,

In order of simplicity/cost (though not necessarily in order of probability), check:

1. Alternator belts tension (probably 2 belts)
2. Alternator belts condition (if worn, traction may be poor, or belts may not hold tension)
3. Heavy wires from battery. Make sure the insulation is not worn off and permitting an improper ground or short, and that the connection points (terminals) appear solid (can't be jiggled, no sign of rust, no sign of powdery corrosion).
4. Wires connecting to back of alternator. Same as #3.
5. Inspect and wire brush clean all the fuses and fuse holders
6. Remove battery and have tested by local car parts store (usually a complimentary service in U.S., your miles/kilometers may vary)
7. Many things can wear out on an alternator. Now the question becomes how to diagnose. In other words, you have to remove the alternator, which is just within the skill level of beginner. To replace the brushes or the voltage regulator, this is not a complete removal - as Michael pointed out, the brushes are integrated with the voltage regulator module, with 2 screws on back of alternator, but you might have to loosen the alternator belts and holding bolts to get at the regulator. However, if you do a complete removal, then you can take the alternator to your local car parts store for complimentary test. This will give you additional information - you always want more data, don't you?
8. Of course, the other alternative is to open the checkbook and buy a new alternator, maybe 0 U.S., plus labor to install. Most shops will try to talk you into a new set of belts for another 0.

I recommend that you step through 1 - 6. Maybe it's just a battery ($70 U.S. plus your own 20 minutes labor), or belts ($80 plus your own 40 minutes labor), or fuses (just your 5 minutes labor). If you still have problem, check back with group to decide if you spend $15 for new brushes plus your labor, or $70 for the regulator, or skip to step 8.

Pat Q

The devil of the brushes, if I'm not mistaken, is that the warning light is lit by current going into the regulator to excite the rotor - when the alternator is charging okay, the alternator bucks the battery on the other side of the light and extinguishes the light by supplying the rotor current itself. When the brushes go out, the alternator can't put out current but the light doesn't go on because there isn't any current through it, either. More modern systems may do it differently.

Mike

Wow! Thank you all, especially Pat with your Dummies Guide to Diagnosing Battery/Alternator problems. It seems it's now time for me to roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty.

To put my uneasiness into context, the first time I ever lifted the bonnet and touched anything under there I played the idiot, took the radiator cap off whilst it was hot and spent the night in hospital with first degree burns! So I tend to avoid venturing under there if I can possibly help it!

I'm currently living in the Netherlands and am missing being able to communicate with friendly local mechanics or friends with know-how. I'm suspicious that cold damp air, which there is plenty of here, isn't doing my wagon any good. It's got 140,000 miles on the clock (so is good for the same again!) and I think we're just going through a stage of having to replace original parts that have served their time.

I'll check back to let you all know how I get on. If anyone knows of a Volvo Owners club in the Eindhoven/Noord-Brabant area, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks - Tim

Wow, radiator burns sound pretty painful.

A warning instruction omitted earlier: be sure to disconnect your battery before doing any work around the alternator.

Hah! I can be as stupid as the next guy... maybe stupider! Last month I removed the cap from my daughter's Honda without thinking. The coolant spewed out and soaked the sleeve of the shirt I was wearing, along with the sleeve of the sweatshirt over it. I shook my arm to get the scalding sweatshirt down past my hand, but I couldn't do anything about my shirt sleeve. It was about 10 seconds before I got cold water on it.

Most of the burn was a bright red first degree, but there were some small blisters. After a week or so the skin turned crinkly and peeled off.

I routinely pick tea bags and ears of corn out of boiling water with my fingers (my wife no longer gets on me about it), but this was in a different league. Since the stuff is made to boil at elevated temperatures, when it comes out boiling it means business.

Ah, it's great to be a guy!

Mike

My worst (so many to choose from): With my ordinary home depot black&decker electric drill, it took about 45 minutes to drill out the broken and rusted mounting stud from the exhaust manifold flange on my old 1800E. Holding the downpipe with my right hand, drilling with full body weight on left hand, the worn out and red-hot bit finally punched through to the other side, accelarating to top RPM, where the tip of my index finger was waiting to be pinched between the bit and the pipe. $5,000 medical bills to glue my fingertip and fingernail back together. After bandages and splints removed 3 months later, discovered that the bone was also broken at the knuckle and healed a little crooked. Still can't bend that fingertip like I used to.

Ah, to be a stupid man and admit it.

OW!!!!!!!! You win.

Mike

Heheh. After I stopped driving my 240, I was taking parts off of it, partly to use them, partly out of curiosity. I figured I could rig up my own valve spring compressor with a couple odd shaped pieces of metal and a long screwdriver to pry. This took all of my body weight leaning down on my makeshift prybar, when suddenly I slipped and one of those odd shaped pieces of metal shot up and hit my two front teeth right at the gumline. My whole head was instantly numb (compared to when I came up with this scheme, ha ha) and I thought for sure I just knocked out those two teeth and or badly split my upper lip.

After about a minute, and lucky for me, I found a mirror to look in and somehow all that happened was a couple small cuts on my gum. My teeth weren't even crack and my head soon felt normal again. Imagine what would have happened if that had hit me in an eye instead. Did I mention lucky for me?

Michael Pardee wrote:

One of us should copyright this thread before Dave Barry or someone cuts and pastes it to his publisher.

Truth is funnier than fiction.

Well guys, the prophets of doom were right. Even I can read a volt meter and make a diagnosis on the back of its results.

I checked the battery with engine off and it read a happy 12 volts. Engine on and the reading hit a lowly 7.6 volts. According to everything I've read on the matter, that just should not be the reading if the alternator is healthy. Wanting to be absolutely sure, I gave my wife the signal to turn on headlights, heater, radio, etc and rev the engine so that I could take another reading and expect a result around the 14 volt mark. At the first move, turning on the headlights brought the engine to an immediate stop. Oh dear!

So before you ask, no, we didn't get to testing the regulator, or the charge across different sections of wire/battery/alternator. The car is now stuck back out in the drive (we had to take it out of the garage to avoid poisoning ourselves when testing with the engine on!) as it won't start.

Looks like I'm going to have to get the alternator, or at least the regulator out of there and see about having it fixed. The helpful suggestions about taking the bits down to a friendly local electrical store were great, but being stuck here in the Netherlands raises a bit of a communication problem. At the moment, best bet looks like asking a friend to collect an alternator for me whilst they're in England in 10 days time. On that point, is buying a 2nd hand alternator from a trusted Volvo breaker a bad idea or worth a shot for the significant cost saving?

Tim

Recently replaced my '91 240 alternator. The old one was labeled "Bosch Remanufactured". I purchased this car in 2000 (I think) - it had 104,000 miles, and I've added 55,000. So, I guess the remanufactured unit was good for around 6 years and the original was replaced around 7 years.

Remanufactured is around $150 - $180 U.S., new is maybe $250 ? I don't know. My "new" alternator is $15 from a pull your own junk yard with new brushes. It may die today, or in 6 years.

In article , wrote: [ ... ]

If you don't have a battery charger, get one; charge the battery overnight, then you should have no problem starting and pulling the car into the garage. Alternatively, you can charge it from another car using jumper cables.

I drove my 145 for about a week with a dead alternator; I just charged the battery every night and didn't use any electrical accessories. Fortunantly, it was during the summer, so I didn't need headlights driving the 4 miles each way to work.

Gary