2001 Jetta vr6 OVER REVVED bad, runs very rough now!

2001 Jetta vr6 over revved now missing bad! HELP!!My son was cruising down the interstate at 65mph. SOMEHOW gearshift got knocked into 1st Overgear during a panic situation.
(Didnt thimk that was possible), red lined it for about 3 seconds. Now car wont idle, very rough running, fault codes said multiple engine misfires, put in new plugs and wires, no help at all. Coolant is VERY brown, looks like possible antifreeze on the dipstick, sounds like head gasket or worse. Any ideas on how to narrow this problem down?? Thanks in advance.
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do a compression check. Bet you got bent valves.

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You floated the valves, I bet. Might as well pull the head off, see how bad the damage is.
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Brian Running wrote:

Concur. The valves really get quite a push from the cam lobes, and their velocity is considerable at high RPM. The valve springs just aren't strong enough to overcome intertia at some engine RPM, and they will hit the pistons if the engine exceeds that RPM. Your son seems to have, um, verified this experimentially. (The usual redline has some safety factor built in to account for valve springs losing tension as they age...but not much, because kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the speed.)
If the coolant is cardboard-colored, one of the valves might have had its head break off and then be jammed into the combustion chamber hard enough to break into the water jacket--or worse, broken the cylinder casting or liner (I don't know what the VR6 block is made of). If it's just dark brown, that's a normal-enough color and the head might be salvageable.
Assuming you get an estimate you really don't like for the moment, which seems probable though not certain...where's the car? My son wants a VR6 badly enough to put an engine in one or rebuild it...
Best of luck,
JRE
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"JRE" wrote:

the
hard
Well, JRE, the car is in New Albany, Indiana.....and if you dont know where that is.. it is right across the river from Louisville, Kentucky.....
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boardboy wrote:
<snip>

Sadly, way too far for us to consider retrieving. Have you had it opened up yet for an estimate? (Just curious.)
JRE
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well.....i havnt opened her up yet to look at anything and i havnt done a compression test on it.....i would open her up myself but this car means to much to me to start playing with it myself......but i did talk to this guy who works on just Euros and he said he didnt even want to touch it just because it would have been about $400 in labor just to get to the engine....although that ticked me off because i mean thats his job and he said he wont touch it.....
"JRE" wrote
> boardboy wrote: > > <snip> > > Well, JRE, the car is in New Albany, Indiana.....and if you > dont know > > where that is.. it is right across the river from > Louisville, > > Kentucky..... > > Sadly, way too far for us to consider retrieving. Have you > had it > opened up yet for an estimate? (Just curious.) > > JRE
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boardboy wrote:

<snip>
I'm not sure what he means by "get to the engine." If he means "pull the heads," I understand.
But look at it from his point of view. He pulls the heads...half the valves are bent...four or five valve guides are broken...a piston crown is cracked...that cylinder liner is scored...and the estimated repair cost is $3K or more. His shop's been tied up half the day (400 bucks just to find out what's wrong...ka-ching!). How many customers will want to fix it after all that? How long will the car sit around while most customers make up their minds? How many will be happy to pay the bill once they decide not to fix the car? Is the car worth enough for a mechanic's lien to provide a remedy?
I'm not casting any aspersions in your direction. It's just that part of running a successful shop is knowing when to *decline* a job. The chances of a successful outcome and happy customer are much lower for some jobs than for others. Every shop draws the line a bit differently from others, so don't stop shopping. But if a second shop declines it, and surely if a third does, it's time to ask about junkyard engine swaps instead.
JRE
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I am sure that shop will touch it, but you both need to agree upon a guesstimation of what it could cost and you bring the car to his shop along with a deposit of maybe 50%. Be prepared ($$$$) when he finishes in a week or so. This is since you talked to him already and he knows he needs to open up the engine. ;-)
You should call up some GOOD shops (dealer too) and get quotes on a new/remmaned/used engine installed. All of those will be in the thousands though, but this should be the worse scenario.
Do you think your warranty might help you out any? Did you buy your car new? If so you might have a 10yr/100K mile warranty on the drivetrain.
just thinking out loud! good luck!

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dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote: <snip>

<snip>
Dunno about VW, but late-model BMW computers read out the max engine RPM. One reason has been said to be avoiding warranty claims arising from over-revving.
JRE
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Good point!! Not sure on that feature on the '01s, but it might. I think ECMs are also recording excessive vehicle speeds, so watch out when you are going beyond the speed limit! 8^)
OK what happens if the accelerator malfunctions and overrevs the engine? Will the warranty still cover damage?
later, dave (One out of many daves)

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Ditto on the "floated valves" thing.
Basically, your valves get pushed so hard, so quickly, that they end up staying open all the time during the high revs. Mr. Piston comes up and smacks one or more of the values, bending the valves so they don't seal anymore. If you're really lucky, the valves end up putting a hole in the top of your piston as well.
I'm betting that you bent the valves at the very least. Providing that your cylinder head is rebuildable, the machine shop bill for the rebuild job alone will be around $350 or more (depends on damage, warpage, etc). I assume about 4 hours in labor here as well, plus seals, gaskets, fluids, etc. If all you did was to bend a few valves then we're talking around $1000 at a local repair shop (I think).
If you hole'd a piston.... (playing taps) then you're looking at a new piston. Shadetree mechanics replace single pistons, but I don't think that a shop would do that, given the fact that there is a significant chance it won't work 100% when you get done. Therefore... add in the cost of a shortblock. I can shortblock a VW in around 11 hours, and I know people here can do that in less... but... 10 hours of labor, a rebuilt or used shortblock... let's add another $1500. Also, at that point, you'd wanna replace the clutch, just because you're in that deep -- another $200 or so in parts.
There is also a possibility that the tranny is shot as well. I mean, to get that car into 1st at 65, you either have to reallllly try (and the syncros would've been screaming) or the tranny has a real problem that allowed that (not likely). A rebuilt tranny, delivered to your door, is around $800.
In other words, this vehicle would be worth fixing if you wanna do the work yourself -- and Mr. "Somehow overrode the syncros at 65 mph" might want to do the work, just to learn his lesson and never do it again. In fact, if you can find a wrecked VR6, you could pull the motor / tranny combo and transplant it in about 15 hours or so, and maybe get outta there for $1500 or so.
However, if you're gonna pay to have it done... I'd think that the car probably isn't worth it.
Give my regards to "I don't know how I pushed against the syncros for ten seconds at 65 mph to get it into first" for me, will ya?
Signed,
Tim Wohlford '89 Golf '98 Jetta Father, 2 former teenage drivers

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Holy crap, I'm not going to let this happen to me! This is exactly the kind of post that makes this newsgroup interesting... TL

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I agree about the valves floating. Not the transmission. The motor mounts and tires would of ta ken a lot of load. And the clutch would of slipped a bunch too too. Its braking force, not slamming gears at high rpm and torque. I think the transmission will be fine. I,m imagining he tried to force it in and had to wait with his foot on the clutch and not on the gas , coasting. It went in and he dumped the clutch at idle. Probably at 85mph not 65 either. . If he held the gas to get the car to try and stay at speed, then the transmission would of had less slamming on it, but the valves and engine..... Well , we are all there already. It would be nice to get the real story, here.

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Anyone have a handle on how many revs this motor was turning at 65 mph while in first gear?
And, how did he avoid spinning that car out? The rear wheels probably had minimal contact with the ground, and the front tires would be skidding....
Tim Wohlford

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geek49203 wrote:

I'm still surprised at even getting it in to first in the first place...even if the engine hadn't bought the farm, I'd look at the entire driveline, including the clutch, before putting the car back on the road.
My 1986 Jetta would be turning about 12,000 RPM at that speed in first gear. In this scenario it would be limited by the tires and clutch, and would probably not get that high.
Still, ouch.
Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..." ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte
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I agree with your skepticism on the condition of the tranny (see my earlier post), but the gurus here disagreed.
I too figure my '89 or '98 vehicles wouldn't hit 12,000 RPMs. I guess I'd also wonder how the young driver kept the car on the road as the tires were locking up, with 100% of the "braking" force on the front tires, the engine slammed as far forward as it would go, etc.
Tim Wohlford

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ACtually, fronts locked up is a stable condition. Rears locked and fronts rolling, not so much. Had a frozen prop valve in my '89 GTI; discovered same at about 75 MPH when some num c**t cut me off and I had to stab the brakes. Whoopsie!
nate
geek49203 wrote:

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Sounds like bullshit to me. Were you in the car with him? Otherwise it sounds more like the kid was goofing around in some other fashion. The engine's toast anyway but it'd be better to get the true story about how he ruined it...
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