A1 airconditioning question(s)... R12 vs R134 vs FREEZE 12

Hello all, it's been a while... I have to fight with my computer or server to get here these days!

I recently heard from someone that "Rabbit A/C's don't convert to 134a very well". Hmmmm. Question is, why? I'm guessing that it's probably too small a system? i.e. barely (if) big enough to begin with, and 134a conversions always rob considerable cooling potential from any R12 system?

And what's this "FREEZE 12" stuff that's available from Johnsen's? There's lots of it for sale on ebay. Is it really as cold as R12? Or at least colder than the 134a conversion? Sounds like good stuff. Too good to be true? Any personal experiences welcome, along with any links to good reading.

I'll be checking here. Seems like a good subject to post about. But if you can also send reply's directly, I have a better chance of actually reading it!

Thanks all In2hoppn

Jim B.

My opinion is some of these so called "techs" (term used very broadly) need a clue. I recently converted my Scirocco to R-134a after having no a/c for... 5 years? 8 years? Can't remember, but it worked sometime in the past 13-1/2 years.

All I know is having vents blowing at 58 F instead of 102 F is pretty damn nice! Do I care if R-12 would having it blowing a little colder? Not one bit. It cost me less than $100 to get it working, and I don't end up somewhere dripping wet...

I have discovered a leak in the low pressure valve. Hopefully once I fix that and recharge, the retrofit results will be even better.

For those thinking about it:

BTW... Keep an on eye on Big Lots for cans of R-134a. They recently had Interdynamics brand on sale for $2.49! Too bad they were sold out :(

Greg :) 1985 VW Scirocco 2.0L 8V

In-2 In-serts more In-fo below...

I agree... particular "clue" needed (not just ac related either) is how spending 3x$ doing something right instead of 1x(or less)$ doing it half-fast or hacked, on something (i.e. old vw) that is only worth 0.5x(or less)$ after the fix just doesn't pan out as the "right" thing to do! But also to follow up on my "tech"'s comment... changing the condensor size is the other 10% direction to persue... seems that would be getting into some $ too...

If 58 F at vents = comfortable driving in the hot sun, it sounds good to me too! The cost of R-12 in just too expensive to dump into a system without trying to insure it won't leak back out anytime soon. And doing that on an 80's system abviouly = $$. I was just going to convert, but a guy I met behind the counter of local parts store said he wasn't going to convert his rabbit because they are "known not to convert well". I gathered from him that his information comes from various auto ac experienced people, but couldn't really nail anything down as factual. If your scirocco wasn't a problem, I fail to see how rabbit is different... so far anyway...

Hope that goes well... did you still have some R12 pressure before you converted? My 86 still has pressure, and if I jump the limit switch, it blows quite cold. For all I know, it's still full and the switch is bad. I lack equipment to check further...

Nice job. I have that site added to my favorites menu now. Hope you get and keep it updated. This is exactly what I was looking for. A1 VW experience! I did this same conversion on my GMC van. Sure, I wish it was a little colder, but it's adequate. And any short coming may be due to the following ; ) All I did was pull a vacuum (and only on the low side, but a nearer 30inch type pump), add the new fittings and 134a. If it fails later, oh well. But my dad's chevy (same thing) got this conversion a few years ago and still works fine. No new O-rings or dryer. My cost so far? $30 for my half of the 30lb can (see below), $0 for left over fittings from the conversion kit I bought over a year ago (it was cheaper than buying 3 cans seperately, which I used to top-off two other vehicles with 134a systems). So really, only 3lbs of 134a totalling $6.00 and a small can of ester oil that I don't remember cost... CHEAP CHEAP. And if my compressor seizes up later? Hopefully, I'll hear it before loosing the belt ; )... shut it off, disconnect the wire, and I'm back where I started... no A/C. (plus I have a spare compressor for a better effort later).

My dad and I, both being foolish enough to own about a half dozen used vehicles each, instead of being smart enough to invest maybe 10x$fleetcost on one new dependable (NOT) vehicle each... decided it was worth our investing in a 30 pound can of 134a at sams. The interdynamics kits we had bought didn't include a gauge, but I had bought one seperately. Next better would be having the gauge attached while filling! For my next conversion, I need to find source for fittings only and maybe a few o-rings.

But having said all this, if a quick shot can of FREEZE 12 can revive (temporarily even) an R12 system (like we used to do when r12 quick shot cans were cheap and everywhere)... it sounds like a good thing. So I'm still fishing for more experience there. I'm thinking the big "tech" warnings are about the same as the 134a warnings of the past. Technically, it's a bad thing. But functionally, problems are rare, at least for a while? I mean, IIRC when the 134a systems started coming out, conversions supposedly meant replacing almost the entire system...