Do the Germans or Japanese Make Better Cars?

As a lover of German cars and a driver of a 2001 GTI I can honestly say that I totally agree with the JD Powers results mostly. Toyota truly is the crème da la crème of quality even if some of their models are a bit boring. The others like Honda as well. VW's have really have major quality issues but I bought my VW because I like the personality and slightly more distinct looks over the cookie cutter looks of many of the Japanese models. The VW's fit and finish are also top notch at least initially. But ask me what to buy if ya want good reliable well assembled not in the shop all the time transportation and I'll say Toyota or Honda hands down. Steer clear of the VW unless you are willing to deal with all the issues it will have. Who knows, you could get a good one though the odds are alot higher you won't. Guess I live dangerously. :-)

Adam

I think it is cyclical and maybe not possible to reliably compare "German made" vs. "Japanese made" vs etc. anymore. My '95 Accord was American made and excellent quality. My '03 Accord is Japanese made and quality is a lot lower. My '91 Mexican made Golf had initial quality problems but those were sorted a long time ago and it is a solid car. My '69 German made bug - that I don't own any longer - is still on the road and never had a peep of trouble.

It's funny, cuz I know a guy who worked at the Honda plant in Ontario, and said he won't buy a Honda. Yah Toyotas are reliable, but they seem to cheap and tinny... VWs are solid, their panel gaps are perfect, their interiors are out of a luxury car... come on. Its a car you WANT to drive. VW's problems are supplier related. This is even a bigger problem with American cars, the parts are cheap... German car manfs have to skip on stuff or else their prices will probably go up way more.

well, you won't see the different until you got in a collision. Haven't you seen all the Japs' with bumper holes on them after a slight scratching? Imagine a head on or rear on collision?..., I think everyone got the picture now, the air bag won't be of any value unless your car is solid in the first place. Fiberglass shell won't protect you in any situation.

in 1999, an SUV hit my 91 Jetta's front bumper from side on at nearly 60mph. my front bumper flied 30 feet away. Afterward, just a simple pull at a body shop, everything got restored. Can you imagine how a Jap car will look like after such an incident?

Sure, they can give you 35 - 40 mpg, but at what cost? - your life in case of an accident!

cheers,

I'd bet you most Toyotas would perform nearly as well if not equal to most VW's. Cars today have to meet certain standards and I've seen the Jetta crash tests as well as ones from the jap manufacturers and overall all the front ends pretty much disintegrate. Passenger injury on the cars varies but the differences in body structure integrity isn't that different. This isn't a difference where the Jetta suffers practically no damaged while the Corolla is totalled or anything. I do remember the Jetta not doing well in the side impact ratings compared to many of its counterparts and I remember the Beetle doing surprisingly excellent its front impact tests but not that much better then the Civic. Front end in both cases was trashed.

Adam

Actually, both the Golf, Jetta, Passat and Touareg get Double 5-Star ratings for front, side, and rear impact.

Toyota and Honda tend to do ok in frontal, but fail miserably in in side and rear impact.

- Peter

I agree 100% with Rob...I have been to the Toyota and Honda plants, and I would never buy either of these vehicles.

Notice how the Jetta seems to be the bar for the small car class? I mean, the Focus, Corolla, and Civic all have been redesigned since the intro of the A4 Jetta, and isn't it interesting how they all have similar lines to the Jetta?

The Golf...It set the bar for a small hatchback...I mean, Honda, Toyota and Mazda all copied the concept.

Passat is the nicest family sedan in it's class. It is a true "family sedan". The Camry is a boring, cookie cutter 4-door...The Accord...It looks ugly and is rather gutless. The Mazda6...it's just a Taurus in drag.

- Peter

As I said I never styling of Toyota was necessarily nicer or that they even more spirited to drive. As a matter of fact I said the Toys were cookie cutter but as far as quality and reliablility there is no way that anyone in their right mind can say the modern VW is more troublefree then your average modern Toyota. If I was gambling I'd put bet money on the Corolla or Camry over the Jetta or Passat as to who would spend less time in for unneeded service and have the odds in my favor. Again I drive a 2001 GTI. Guess I prefer to decrease my odds :-)

Adam

Ya may want to see this. It tells alot about just how similar almost all the small cars are in frontal related tests.

No I haven't but I'm sure that since you assert that here that it must be true that "all" Japanese cars are death traps because of those "bumper holes"(?). Overall, new cars are much safer now and future models will continue to be safer regardless of country of origin.

So that pretty much proves my point that the gap of safety differences between brands is marginal and really not an issue though the reliability of the VW compared to Toyota is wide in Toyotas favor. Bottom line. Nobody can ever say VW cars are more reliable then product coming out of Toyota and Honda. Believe me I love alot about VW and my GTI but I hope VW turns things around so that when people ask me for advice on buying a car in he future I can say get a VW hands down if ya want bulletproof reliability and safety as well as personality.

Adam

Most surveys from Europe show high reliability for VW/Audi/BMW/Mercedes.

But this one is surely more inline with American surveys. It is a very good thing that Asian manufacturers put some pressure on Euro/American brands in reliability.

The original article is;

"From Deutsche Welle 28/11/03

Mercedes and BMW for all their glamour, aren't the preferred choice of German car-owners, according to two surprising new surveys released this week.

When it comes to overall ratings, nothing tops the charts like a Mercedes Benz. But for everyday use, German car-owners prefer Japanese cars to the legendary names of their native country.

The stunning news is the result of two surveys conducted separately by car magazine AutoBILD and German car-insurer ADAC. The so-called Automarxx survey, conducted by ADAC with the Center for Automotive Research at Gelsenkirchen Technical College, asked more than 38,000 car owners to rank international car companies in terms of consumer satisfaction.

The German automobile industry's first entry on the list is Porsche at number eight. Toyota and Honda lead a pack of Asian rivals in the first seven spots.

The study, which will first be released to the public next week, is sure to disappoint the likes of Mercedes and Audi, who apparently enjoy a better reputation abroad than at home.

Not even in the top five

Covering a range of areas from company strength and market position to design and environmental friendliness, the latest Automarxx survey is the first to feature a Consumer Satisfaction section.

The consumer questionnaires looked at both the products and service of 33 manufacturers, and included ratings of electronics, motor power and comfort as well as of cost and standards of garage work.

While German brands Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen and Porsche still occupy the top five of the Overall Rating section, they barely figure in the Consumer Satisfaction top ten, beaten by Toyota at number one, followed by other Asian competitors such as Subaru, Honda and Mazda.

Quality over image

The competition is not surprised by the results. Speaking from the Essen Motor Show, which opened on Thursday, Mazda's Peter Tuhl told Deutsche Welle that Mazda's position in the top five reflected the Japanese company's enduringly high technical standards.

He said a Mazda owner experiences "lasting satisfaction." A German car owner, on the other hand, is more like a "disappointed lover who realizes the first promises aren't going to come true".

The survey results seem to back up the mark. Mercedes has no problem with its image, but rather with its follow-through, according to the results.

Dr. Ferdinand Dudenhöffer, who led the survey, said the emphasis German companies like Mercedes place on innovation comes at the expense of production quality.

"Every technical innovation increases the risk of a break-down," he says."In this respect, Toyota is more conservative, which may not be good for its image, but is very beneficial in terms of reliability."

"Made in Germany" loses clout

The AutoBILD survey confirms the trend. The first German entry on the list is BMW at number five, again trumped by Asian rivals.

VW CEO Dr. Bernd Pischetsrieder admitted to AutoBILD that "in technical terms, Toyota is better then us. But not just us."

The results of the Automarxx survey are a blow to Stuttgart-based Mercedes in particular, which comes in at an astonishingly low number 32. Other German manufacturers fared equally badly, with Volkswagen at number 31 and Opel only four places higher."

Echo hatchback (Canada only) and the Echo Sedan, the 99 Tercel is a tin can... Yeah the really new stuff is fine. I won't say it screams of quality, i'll say they are using an incredibly durable material(s) in the car... but there are better looking options that could probably do the same or close.

Then you better get a Mercedes, whose whole body frame, including the upper part is ONE piece of high strength steel! You won't find a welding mark, no screw at all. Just you need to grab a little deeper into your lap.

cheers,

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