Hi. I've just been quoted approximately $1500-1800, to have the core and timing belt/water pump replaced. I've been scraping together the money to do the belt myself, but since the core is starting to "vapor", that getting it all done at the same time would be good. Looking at the Allpar account for this model vehicle, and knowing that Allpar can be wrong, it shows hours flagged for the core replacement at 6+ hours for a competent tech. Is the price worth the expense quoted? The shop rate is $83 p/h and they offer a
Yes this is accurate. The air conditioning system must be emptied (recovered with machine) and then evacuated and recharged afterward. You will want to replace the A/C evaporator at the same time if it shows any signs of leakage as they are very prone to failure.
I agree with Road Runner - he beat me to the suggestion that you replace the evaporator while you're in there. The evaporators in these LH cars are known for failing (just did my '99 Concorde evap. last year - did the work myself). The dash has to be completely removed to do either the heater core or the evaporator. Since, as RR says, the a.c. has to be broken open, the only added charge of replacing the evap. at the same time is the cost of the evap. part itself - IIRC, $200-300 depending on the dealer. (If a competent shop does the work, they should be able to re-use the old accumulator/dryer.)
Since you mention timing *belt* - not chain - you must have the 3.2L engine (and not the 2.7L engine) - is that right? Be sure to also replace the timing belt idler/tensioner pulley too. Gates makes a "timing belt kit" - contains the timing belt and the idler pulley - just over $100 for the kit. I recommend going Gates or OEM on the water pump.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
If you are mechanically inclined the timing belt is a rather easy job to do, no special tools are needed for this job. set cams, and crank and on your way. The book will probably tell you to remove the crank gear (you dont have to do this unless you are replacing the crank seal then a special tool is needed). As far as the heater core/Evap, that could be a tricky job to do. I have never used alldata and sure wouldnt attempt this job with a Haynes/Chilton manual. Just my 2 cents worth
I have not done the timing belt on my Concorde with the 3.2L - I paid a shop to do it - I suppled the parts and they charged a flat $300 (I think they may have undercharged me a little). I hear that unless you pull the radiator, you would need a special short harmonic balancer puller. The shop that did mine complained when IO went to pick it up that they had to go out and buy a shorter-than-normal puller for the my job.
ALSO - It is claimed by several on the various LH car forums that, if you're careful, you can work the t-belt around the balancer pulley without removing the pulley.
(Oops - I think that's what you're talking about Glenn - at first I was thinking you were talking about removing the cam sprockets, but I think you're also talking about the balancer pulley?)
Glenn (the OP Glenn) - you asked this: "Is that special piece that keeps the cam sprockets steady necessary, or do I merely be very cautious about working around them?"
From my reading on the LH car forums, you don't need that special tool to hold the cams. HOWEVER, there are *several* posts where people who did their timing belts were scratching their heads afterwards because it wouldn't run, or ran poorly when they finished. Usually they didn't double check how they timed the cams and crank when they put it in *or* problems with the cam sensor not being in right (apparently it's real finicky). The cure in those cases is them re-doing the belt timing or re-installing the cam sensor and its gasket very carefully.
I agree with Glenn on not using a Haynes or Chiltons (for anything). When I did my evaporator last summer, I used my hard copy FSM even though I also have the AllData subscription on that car. My take on AllData is that the info. that they do have is right out of the FSM, BUT they do not include the entire FSM. I did not try to pull up the procedural info. on my AllData account for replacing the evap., so I can't say for sure if there is holes in that info. - I would not be surprised to find that there are.
I can tell you that the FSM is one of those written such that each procedure is not self-complete - IOW, just about every 2nd or 3rd step in the process refers you to another section to read for a "sub-process" (i.e., as in "(1) Remove neg. battery cable - see section ABC; (2) Discharge the a.c. system - see section FJV; (3) Remove dash - see section QLM; etc. etc.), and each section you're referred to will in turn be referring you to other sections. I can tell you that you don't have enough fingers to hold all the places of the entire procedure. Before I started, I read thru the whole process and photocopied all pages involved, then put them together in order with notes and arrows to the next section needed.
There's also a couple of pieces of erroneous info. on the FSM, but nothing that's too hard to figure out when you get to it. There are a couple of places that either are written incorrectly or that were written so poorly and I'm just too stupid to figure out what they were trying to say - even after I did whatever it was, I couldn't tell you if what they said was right or wrong, but I muddled thru.
My only other comment at this time is that, with all the labor of R&R'ing the dash, if your evaporator craps out on you 6 months after replacing the heater core, you're going to be kicking yourself. But then, life's just full of risks, aint't it.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Does the 3.2L have the same O-ring design (behind the water pump - between the water pump housing assembly and the engine block) as the 3.5L? If so, then you will need to pull one of the cam sprockets (passenger side, if I recall correctly - it has been several years, so I may be wrong) to remove the water pump housing and replace that O-ring.
I mention this here because I made the mistake of not replacing this O-ring when I did my first water pump on a 1996 Eagle Vision 3.5L. Everything seemed fine for a year, but then it started leaking again. I thought I got a bad pump from the dealer, but upon opening things up and looking much more closely, discovered the additional O-ring (same physical size/part number as the O-ring used between the water pump and the housing itself). Upon removing the housing, I discovered that the aluminum housing had significant corrosion where it mated with the iron block. I was able to wire brush everything to get it clean and applied a liberal coating of blue permatex RTV. That was about 5 years ago and the replacement pump and O-rings are still holding up well.
Regarding Glenn's suggestion not to pull the crankshaft harmonic balancer pulley, I second this since it is a PITA to remove and unnecessary since the belt can be removed and installed with it still in place. If I remember correctly, the entire job took me about 3 hours, including removal/re-installation of the radiator, timing belt cover, water pump, cam sprocket, and water pump housing. I'd also encourage you to consider replacing all the belts, tensioner, and idler at the same time to not have to do it again any time soon.
The crank has a mark, both cams have a mark. Put the belt under the crank sprocket (after taking off the tensioner idler pulley) Install tensioner Idler Pulley. Set the drivers side cam sprocket at theTDC mark and install the belt onto that sprocket, set the passenger side cam sproket about 1 tooth off and install the belt over that sprocket, pull the cam sprocket with belt on it back to the TDC mark (this will allow it to happen because of slack in the belt), install belt over tensioner.
No leave cam sprockets alone
not needed, I beleive thats an after market tool that is used on some set ups, mostly chain/sprockets. You dont need such a tool
Probably didnt run because they didnt set it up correctly to begin with. If the belt is installed and before installing covers you check the Timing marks at both cams and crank it will start!!!
You're pulling an entire dash on an LH car on average about one every day and a half of the work week? Two to three a week? And it only takes you about 3 hours start to finish?
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Thanks for all the input folks. I think I'll bite the bullet and pay the $$$ to have both items serviced. At least their warranty is generous, 18k/18m. Just work xtra job to pay for it all! ;-)
Well - as proven by Einstein: "Time = money". (see - I *do* know science!!) :)
It's going to cost you time either way you look at it - either time to do it or time to make money to pay someone else. Probably less of your time to work for the money and pay someone else to do it. Especially if you're only going to be paying someone for a couple of hours of their time (I do find that hard to believe). Guaranteed it would take you (or me - I know - I did it) a *lot* longer than that.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
KC, huh? There is a Chrysler dealer there - Jack Miller Jeep - that
*had* been one of the lowest price on-line OEM parts dealers -
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However their web site doesn't appear to be active starting about the time that Cerberus bought Chrysler. Are they still a Chrysler dealer? Anyway - if they still are a dealer, you might consider them for parts.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
I agree with Steve B. on the water pump. The only aftermarket water pump I would trust is Gates, and I don't think Advance is going to stock Gates. I'm not saying that other aftermarket brands won't be good or OK, but unless you know for sure about a particular brand, you just don't know. Check out
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Oops - just checked them on the water pump - they don't carry Gates water pump, but they do carry the kit (belt and idler pulley) for $97.
I say get the water pump from the dealer - this is not something that you want to have to re-do on this car because of typical crappy aftermarket part early failure ("Oh - it's got a lifetime warranty, so what are you worried about!?" - yeah - well, will you pay the labor too? Didn't think so). Lists for $100 - around $80 from discount dealers. When I had a shop do my '98 Concorde t-belt, pump, accessory belts and their idlers, hoses and thermostat two years ago, with me supplying the parts, I got all Gates (from Rock Auto) except I got an OEM water pump.
IMO...
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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