Caravan COLD Engine Oil Leak?? Help!!

Hi everyone,

I know that this is the "Chrysler" group, but unfortunately there is only like 10 people posting in the "Dodge" group, so I will still try to get some info. here from any mechanics in the group.

I am hoping that someone can help me out here and try to solve "a big mystery" that none of my mechanics can seem to solve.

I have a 1995 Dodge Caravan with 170,000 thousand miles. Its the 3.0L V6 engine. A little over a month ago, the car developed a MAJOR oil leak, where oil would basically just POUR out of the engine. The car would lose about 1 quart of oil every 5 minutes the engine was running.

My regular mechanic of 10+ years was "positive" that it was the "rear main seal" and he doesn't do major engine work anymore, so he recommended some other guy that I never heard of or went to before.

Anyway, I brought the car there, and the guy looked at it, and he said that the "crankshaft seal" was totally gone, and that the car needed a new "timing belt" as well. And sense I can't afford a new car right now, because I am only working part-time, and need transportation, I told him to fix it.

Plus, I was HOPING to get at least another year or two out of this car, because 2 years ago, I spent $2,000 dollars for a rebuilt transmission when the tranny went out, and last year I spent $800 dollars for a new fuel pump, and another $800 dollars on all new brakes and rotors! So in the last 2 years alone, I have sank $3,600 into this car!!!!

It took 2 days, and the cost was $800 bucks!!! So, I bring the car home, and find out that now, the engine is completely doing something else. What happens now, is that now the engine is leaking oil when the engine is COLD. When you 1st start the car and the engine is cold, oil DRIPS out. As the engine warms up, the leak slows down, and stops after the engine gets hot.

So I bring it back to the guy, and leave it there for another 2 days, and he calls me back and tells me that he "CAN'T find anything wrong with it, and doesn't see it dripping any oil", but yet charges me another $50 bucks to look at it.

So Monday night I put a piece of cardboard under there. Tuesday morning I go to start it up, and sure enough drip, drip, drip for about 10 minutes until coming to a stop.

Tuesday night I do the same thing, and put a new piece of cardboard there, and this morning I start it up, and once again drip, drip, drip, for about 5-10 minutes until the engine gets warm.

So I call the guy back, and told him that its still dripping when cold, and he says "That's strange", he never heard of anything like this before?? So now he wants me to drop it off again for another couple of days so that he can "look at it again"??

So does anybody know what the heck is going on here, and what the big "MYSTERY" is??? Why does the engine leak oil when cold, and then stop leaking oil after it warms up?

Does the "crankshaft seal" need time to expand or something??

Any info. and or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!!!!

Thanks!

Reply to
MICHELLE H.
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From my experience, the 3.0 is one of the most leak prone engines that Chrysler ever used.

Having said that, have you looked to see where the oil is coming from? If it is coming from the left side (engine rear), it could be that the rear seal was not installed correctly. Also, these engines use seals on the valve covers ends that can cause leaks.

I agree in that it is something that is expanding once warmed up, which stops the leak. Leaks can also develop from the valve cover gaskets themselves.

The brake and fuel pump work that you had done seems high. I had a fuel pump replace a few years ago. It was $120 for the pump, with another $100 in labor to install it.

Good luck,

KM

Reply to
KirkM

Hi KM,

Thanks for the response, I really do appreciate it! If you are standing at the bumper facing the engine, the oil drip is coming from the left side somewhere under where the belt is at. You CAN'T see the leak from the top of the engine.

When the car is running, and you look under the engine, you can see the oil dripping when the engine is cold, but you can't really see where its coming from unless the car is up on a lift, or if you crawl under it with eye goggles on or something.

It is coming from the same spot as it was before this guy replaced the "crank seal" when the oil was pouring out when the engine was running.

Also, the guy who did the repair didn't replace the "rear main seal", he replaced the "crank seal" and "timing belt".

I let the car sit for about an hour after letting it warm up this morning, and started it up again, and there was about 3-6 more drips, and then it stopped. So the colder the engine is, the more it leaks. The warmer the engine is, the less it leaks?

So, do you think this guy installed the "crank seal" or "timing belt" wrong?? Should I bring the car back to him when he had it for 2 whole days a few days ago, and claimed that he "can't find anything wrong with it"??

And yes. last year my regular mechanic of 10+ years did charge me $800 bucks to replace the fuel pump!!! He said that it was located in the gas tank, and that he had to drain out all the gas, and take the whole fuel tank apart, and that it was "very labor intensive".

Then when my brakes started to go, he charged me another $800 for all new brakes and rotors!!! And the year before that I spent $2,000 to have the tranny rebuilt.

So now I have spent like $4,400 dollars on this stupid car in 3 years, when its probably got a "Kelly Blue Book" value of what $500 bucks!?

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

First off - Dodge is a division of Chrysler - so your OK here.

  1. Rear main seal is one of the two crank seals - there's a front one and a rear one. So it's not clear from what you've posted which he did. Of course doing the front main seal would have been easier while doing the timing belt, but of course wouldn't fix the problem if it was the rear that is leaking.

  1. 0 for a brake job? Wow!

  2. Besides things already mentioned, check the oil pressure switch (located down low on the side of the engine - not sure which side on that one) - they can leak.

  1. A clogged up PCV hose or valve can make oil come out of the engine like you wouldn't believe, and out of the strangest places (like up and out of the dipstick tube). When's the last time the PCV valve was replaced and the hoses checked/cleaned/replaced as needed?

Also - for anyone who cares - I normally don't top post, but it was convenient to do so in this case. Don't like it? Tough. :)

MICHELLE H. wrote:

Reply to
Bill Putney

Thanks for the info., I really do appreciate it! I don't know if it was the front or rear crank seal? On the receipt it only states "Replace Timing belt" and "Replace Crank Seal".

So I don't know which one he replaced, but when the oil was pouring out, it was coming out from the front of the engine, about 1 foot from the front bumper.

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

Does it have an oil cooler?

Reply to
Bill Putney

Well he's not going to be able to fix it if it's sitting home in your driveway. I would give him another chance to make it right. Take it the night before so it will be good and cold when he looks at it. Make arrangements to be there the next morning so you can point out the leak and he can't miss it again.

Find a new regular mechanic.

Definitely time for a new regular mechanic. The trans might not be an awful price but that is a crazy price on the brakes.

Reply to
Steve B.

If by "front of the engine" you mean the forward most side of the engine then it's probably the oil pressure sending unit that is leaking.

If "front of the engine" means the side with the belts/passenger side then it's probably camshaft seals and/or crankshaft seal.

The person who did the work needs to recheck his work, adding some UV dye to the oil and checking for leaks with the proper illumination lamp would pin point the source of the leak.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

One thing I did notice though, is that when I go to check the oil, I notice that there is all kinds of little Black fragments in the oil on the dipstick?? When I clean the dipstick off and check the oil again, the little Black fragments are in the oil again??

Could this be a disintegrating gasket?

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

Well, I just started the car after letting it sit for a few hours, and this time I looked under the car while the engine was running. The oil looks to be dripping where the front "crankseal" and "timing belt" meet. There is a pulley there ( which moves the timing belt ), and it seems to be leaking right where that pulley is.

You can also see that the brand new timing belt is covered in oil. As the engine warms up, the leak slows down and ALMOST comes to a stop, even though it really just slows down to a slow oil drip.

But then when the engine gets warm, it looks to be leaking another slow drip in a different spot, right above ( about 1/2 inch so ), above one of the crank seal bolts.

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

That does sound like he screwed up the seal install. One thing, though, an external belt will be an accessory belt. The timing belt will be under a cover (and is also likely to be oil-soaked).

Reply to
Joe Pfeiffer

Hi,

Okay, I guess then its not the "timing belt", and must be some kind of external belt. But it's the belt where the bottom pulley, is where he replaced the "crank seal". The pulley looks to be located in between where the front "crank seal" and external belt are. And the oil is dripping right on the edge of where the pulley touches the "crank seal".

I did bring it back to the guy last weekend, and he kept the car there for almost 3 days, and said that he "couldn't find anything wrong with it".

Do you thing that he is just denying that there is something wrong with it, because he didn't do the installation correctly and doesn't want to now have to redo it for free?

He wants me to bring the car back to him and leave it there for another couple of days so that he can "look at it again", but I won't be surprised if he claims that he can't find the leak again.

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

sounds like he didnt get the front crank seal in correctly. or he tore it putting the harmonic balancer back on. got a digital camera? I'd love to see a picture from under there.

sounds like he is also denying the blunder because if he admits it he must fix it again for free...at least that's how a lot of shops warranty their labor.

I'd get another opinion from someone else.

Reply to
Rob

FWIW this question is also posted in A.A.GM....

I wonder if it really needed a new tranny in the first place assuming it has the A604/41TE in it. Shops still seem to replace the whole thing when all that is wrong is Dexron poisoning, a speed sensor, or the solenoid pack.

Reply to
Daniel who wants to know

Hello again Michelle. I tried to respond to your email, but it says that your inbox is full.

I am concurring with many of the other responses, in that the seal may not have been properly installed, or was the new seal was damaged during installation. The shop should be willing to fix it and make it right. Yes, they don't like to do this, but it is the cost of doing business.

There is always small claims court if they are unwilling to fix it right for you.

KM

Reply to
KirkM

Just wanted to give everyone another update and tell whats going on. I brought the car back to the guy on Thursday afternoon, and he kept the car there till Saturday afternoon.

Once again, he said that he checked the car for any oil leaks, but said that he "couldn't find anything wrong with it".

Now, here is where it gets good. I specifically told this guy to leave the car parked on the GROUND, and to put a piece of clean cardboard under the engine, and then don't start the car until morning.

Well, he didn't do that, and mumbled something about "putting cardboard under the engine got nothing to do with it", and he PUT THE CAR UP ON THE LIFT so that he could get a "birds eye view".

Also, get this when this guy replaced the "crank seal" and timing belt, he put 4 quarts of new oil in the engine, but DIDN'T replace the oil filter!?

He said that "the oil filter looked pretty clean on the OUTSIDE so he figured it was good".=A0Which is NOT true, because actually the car was OVERDUE for an oil change!!!

So get this, he tells me that it will cost me "another $20 dollars" for him to change the oil filter which I believe SHOULD have been done the first time when he charged me $850 for the "crank seal" and "timing belt".

So, I said fine whatever, I'll pay the stupid $20.

I go to pick up the car today ( Saturday ), and when I get there, he hands me a bill for $78 DOLLARS!!!!!! I was like "what the hell", and he tells me that while the car was there, he "topped off all the fluids, cleaned the brakes, and changed the spark plugs"!!!

I NEVER even asked for all that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The car was there so that he could fix the OIL LEAK!!!!!!! He told me "Oh, the plugs looked old and dirty, so I changed them for you".

Then on my way home, I stop off at the grocery store to get some groceries, and when I leave the grocery store about an hour later, the car HAS A HARD TIME STARTING!!!

The when I get home, I look at the oil filter, and its some GENERIC one that I never even heard of!? Its called "ProMotive Oil Filter".

This is just getting ridiculous!!!

I let the car sit for a few hours, and then put a clean piece of cardboard under it, and start it up, and then sure enough drip, drip, drip, for 5-10 minutes!!!!!!

Plus now the car is starting hard, which it sure didn't do 2 days ago!!! I think this guy did something to it ON PURPOSE so that I have to bring it back to him AGAIN for the 4th time in less than 2 weeks!!!!!

AND for those of you wondering "what kind of mechanic this guy is and what kind of place he works at?".

The guy is a mechanic at a USED CAR DEALERSHIP!!!! And I am NOT talking about some big name used car dealership, I am talking about one of those small places on the side of the road that has like 10 cars maximum in the lot.

The ONLY reason why I went to this guy was because my regular mechanic "heard that the guy does engine work for cheap".

My regular mechanic of 10+ years knows that money is tight for me right now because I am only working part-time, and he has HEARD from other people that this other guy does engine work for about $400 or so. But my regular mechanic DOESN'T ACTUALLY KNOW this other guy personally!!!!

Well, it looks like me regular mechanic was off by $400 bucks, because this other guy charged me $850 for the "crank seal" and "timing belt".

Then he charges me another $20 to change the oil filter which should have been done THE FIRST TIME, and he charges me $58 TO "TOP OFF THE FLUIDS, CLEAN THE BRAKES, AND CHANGE THE PLUGS, WHICH I NEVER EVEN ASKED FOR!!!!!!!!

Well, next week I am going to bring it to a new guy. A REAL mechanic at a REAL auto repair shop, where my Aunt has been bringing her car for years, and has been HAPPY with the service there.

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

I was getting ready to suggest that you cut your losses with that guy and find someone else. Sounds like that's what you're doing. Life's to short.

Reply to
Bill Putney

That has got to be the WORST criteria for choosing a mechanic.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Yeah, it looks like I learned THE HARD WAY!! But do you think he did something else wrong, or on purpose, and thats why now it's having a hard time starting?????

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

Oops - "Life's too short".

Reply to
Bill Putney

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