Vegetable oil and diesel

Out here vegetable oil is half the price of Diesel. People are telling proud stories of mixing diesel with vegetable oil. Naturally you'll never hear when things go wrong. It's hard to admit a
mistake. Unless, , , things realy don't go wrong
What's the truth? Can I mix vegetable oil with diesel? What's the risk?
Got a Xant TDI 1997
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2Rowdy ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

The biggest risks are mechanical (pump dying due to lack of lubrication) and financial (here in the UK, you still have to pay the duty - and plod ARE checking)

Google. It's not quite as straightforward as just lobbing a bottle of Tesco Value Pikey Frying Gloop in the tank, though.
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The key word for searching is biodiesel.
I believe that standard diesel engines can run on a mix of up to 5% vegetable oil in petroleum oil; in France I've heard that all diesel fuel is already 5% vegetable, but I can't swear to that. 'Biodiesel' of that sort is available in a very small number of filling stations in the UK.
It is also possible to convert a standard diesel engine to run on 100% vegetable oil - exactly as sold for cooking, and including used cooking oil that has been filtered. The cost of conversion is quite high though; more than 1000 pounds, apparently. For high-mileage drivers it might be cost-effective here in the UK, where standard diesel oil is about 4 or 5 times the cost of cooking oil from the supermarkets. The fuel duty is still payable, and you'd have to declare the quantities used and pay the tax, of course, but the savings could still be substantial. If you can get used oil free from a fast-food shop and filter it yourself, the savings would be even greater (even though you'd still have to pay the tax).
Sooner or later someone will have road-side pumps selling re-cycled cooking oil for vehicle use, with the tax included in the price. Presumably some sort of dye or smell will have to be added to identify the tax-paid fuel. In the UK, diesel oil sold for industrial or heating purposes (ie not taxed as road fuel) is dyed red, to trap tax-dodgers, but I don't think it would be acceptable to dye all vegetable oil not sold as vehicle fuel!
Mr Diesel's original engines all ran on vegetable oil, and he foresaw that this would become a significant advantage.
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Message i.d.:< gurgled happily, sounding much like

Google tells me the Dutch don't check all that often. My tank has never been inspected, ever. Rumors tell that the coastline has a higher risk due to harbors and agricultural markets should be avoided since farmers also can use the other colour (taxfree) diesel.

The stories I hear speak of 50 till 75% of veggie oil.

From what I can find, the HDI engines can't cope with veggie oil. The normal engines only have troubles when it's cold and when it's pure.
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2Rowdy ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

In the UK, I've seen 'em many times. A car on chipfat *smells* distinctive.
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Message i.d.:< gurgled happily, sounding much like

Would the excuse: I ate fish 'n chips - work?
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Message i.d.:< gurgled happily, sounding much like

The Germans have BioDiesel with 5% vegetable oil available on the tap. That'll probably have the same smell. Could use the excuse: Been in Germany.
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Don't worry about it - a close relative has been running pure veggie in a 19TD Xantia for about 2 and a half years and no trouble whatsoever.

Not anymore they aren't. My source was tackled by them and the C&E and the statement "so you want to prosecute me for the tax on a quarter tank of veggie oil? What's that about 2 quid? I'll give you it now in cash if you give me a receipt..." made them go away and never darken his door again.

Wrong! It is exactly that simple!!! Two and a half years of running nothing but oil... No adjustments, no buggering about, just a funnel and a serious brass neck to buy a trolleyfull at a time...
He's experimented with various types, sunflower, veggie and whatnot and has settled on one in particular - I can't remember which though. I'll find out and report back.
CAS
PS. Usual caveat applies - this has been done on 1.9 and 2.1 Citroen diesels (turbo and non-turbo) and the positive results only apply to them.
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2Rowdy wrote:

Try this link http://www.dieselveg.com/conversion%20info.htm .
It's a two tank system using normal diesel for start up and stop down so your pump is full of diesel at the critical points in the journey. If you experiment let me know so I won't damage my car ;-)
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Message i.d.:< inspired me,

The stories I hear tell nothing about modifying engines. All I hear is that the cheap supermarket stores sell vegetable oil by the crate and that tanks are filled right there in the parking lot.

With 50 eurocents a liter I'm tempted. If there comes damage it'll probably take a year or more experimenting.
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bull of which there is but one in ten thousand. I am the wearer of The Secret Girdle that once belonged to DE.
You can get a lot of information from this site. http://www.bio-power.co.uk/index.htm
Pure new vegetable oil is more viscous than normal diesel, so if used in too high a concentration, can cause difficulty in cold starting. But it has a high lubricating factor, so will not harm the pump. Nor will pure veggie oil harm the seals, it is the alcohol which is added to the veggie oil to make bio-diesel which can cause this problem. General consensus is that up to 50% mix with normal diesel will cause no running problems, but could well incur loss of vehicle if the appropriate tax collecting body in your country find out. Certainly, in the UK, HM Customs and Excise will confiscate the vehicle, but they do normally allow you to buy it back!
Of course with the dual tank setup, which includes a heater to thin the veggie oil, in the UK you can register with HM C&E and pay the appropriate duty to them (on an honesty basis I believe). The duty on veggie oil is 20 pence less per litre than for normal fuel. And you help the environment, as veggie oil is a renewable energy source.
You can also use old frying oil, but this requires a lot of filtering and other treatment, see the link above. Brian.
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It certainly looks like a good way to go for those of us with older engines.
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Message i.d.:<

It does :-) Shall I? Will I?, , ,
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Why is a 1lt bottle of WATER, twice the price of diesel ? Toddington Services on M 1, water 1.69 for 1lt. Diesel 96p per 1 lt. Ray

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olddog wrote:

Because there are some daft b*ggers who'll pay for it?
http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1126088762/Premium_Hose_Water
Alan
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