At what point is a vehicle a vehicle?

"Anthony R. Gold" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

I'd love for you to explain this huge conceptual difference between SORN & VED regulations. No, seriously.

Yes, dear. That's near-as-dammit what I said, dear.

Go back and read the original question, Tony.

Sorry that I asked now! No, its actually been a pretty fascinating discussion even though its drifted far from the original question. I was quite surprised to find that my 'car' was already SORN'd, given that when I bought it it didn't actually exist as a car and was only a bare chassis. TBH I guess I wouldn't have to register it with the reg mark allied to that anyway, given that large parts of that chassis have been replaced and that no other part of the car that the chassis was once part of have been used. I suppose a whole different question arises there, that of how much of the car needs to be new in order to give it an identity other than that originally associated with it, but thats not one I'm bothered about since it'd look a bit strange with a 58 reg mark (and of course wouldn't give me free tax!). It *is* interesting though, to think further down that road, even just hypothetically. My engine and gearbox are brand new and have never been in a car, the rear axle CASE is recovered from another vehicle, but everything within the case is new, prop new, body is all brand new panels, parts of interior are recovered from a different make of car and the rest is brand new, every electrical item is brand new (including the loom). All road wheels are brand new, as is the dash instruments and even steering wheel. Kilo for kilo, I'd guess less than 10% of an identifiable car exists within the new car, so is that the one that *should* be nominated as the final result?

Hang on, are you saying the car's still SORN's in the previous owner's name? If so, that would normally be cancelled automatically as soon as you became registered as the keeper. If you haven't done so, for whatever reason, then you're risking a fine for not notifying the DVLA of the change of keeper. You're also risking the previous owner declaring the vehicle to have been scrapped, which he may well do when he gets a SORN reminder. If that happens, you'll have one hell of a headache trying to get it resurrected.

The difference is that a registered keeper can remain on the register and so remain bound in certain duties even after the vehicle has ceased to be a vehicle and so after the vehicle ceases to be liable for VED.

Okay, done that.

Tony

_ gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Umm, have you actually registered it in your name yet? Or did the previous owner SORN it?

If you haven't registered it in your name, do so. Now.

You'd be more likely to get a Q-plate and non-free-tax.

"Anthony R. Gold" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

And that differs for VED and SORN how?

Apology accepted.

My apologies to all for my being slow in recognizing your troll.

Bye.

Tony

"Anthony R. Gold" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

The uk.rec.cars groups don't usually regard "answering the question that was asked rather than trying to score points from a snipped half-sentence quote with some abstruse point related to nothing in particular" as a troll.

I realise that does make them slightly more useful than the mess that uk.legal has become, but there we go.

If you haven't notified DVLA that the vehicle has been broken up you have to sorn it. There was a case a couple of years ago of someone with a motorcycle in bits who fell foul of that. He even as I recall produced the bits in court. At one time you could take it apart yourself but ISTR new legislation covering the disposal of vehicles requiring an authorised person to do the breaking and notify the DVLA.

Alang gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

You can still break it yourself, but until you send the V5C back with the "permanently scrapped" box ticked, it's a vehicle as far as VED/SORN is concerned.

If you don't break it yourself, you hand the V5C over to the scrapper - few now _should_ take a car without the paperwork, because there's been so many nicked and weighed in whilst scrap prices were high.

No, it wasn't until I asked the question here that I actually had a logbook with a reg number on it for me to enter into that enquiry form. I've sent it off now for change of keeper (well, and change of most of the other bits!) I hadn't realised until I read your post though that SORN is tied to the person registering it - if I read your post right thats what you're saying. If a car is SORN'd, what the hell does it matter if it changes hands during that period, its still 'registered' as SORN so I cant see why a new owner would need to reaffirm that. Put it this way, you dont have to surrender an existing tax disc and apply for a new one when a car is sold, do you?

Ewwwww. You can *shove* that idea!

Well, reading that has (just) put my mind at rest. An existing chassis, yep, I qualify there, AND two of the following from the original vehicle: suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine. Well I've got the full orig steering assembly (if you discount the actual steering wheel at the end!), and I've got the full original suspension. Phew, *just* made it!

Indeed, and that points to the difference between liability for VED and SORN. You are only potentially liable for VED so long as it remains a motor vehicle, and which will not be the case if it is in carrier bags or was ground to powder and scattered to the winds. However you will remain liable for SORN until the registration of this no longer extant vehicle is removed from the register by certification of either export or destruction.

Tony

I thought the breaker had to be registered under the EU environment regulations

I usually run a car until it gets uneconomical to repair. Last one cost me 20 quid to have towed away and scrapped 3 years ago. I just filled the paper work out and handed it over to the scrapman but also followed it up with a letter to the DVLA.

Would that mean the tealeaves would get stuck for the forty quid?

"Anthony R. Gold" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Sorry, but no. Fail to tax the car OR declare SORN, and you'll get hit with exactly the same fine whether the car is intact or only exists on a V5.

It becomes liable for SORN when the last road tax ran out unless it was last taxed before SORN came into force. The date of the MOT is neither here nor there, nor is the state of completion of the car.

Okay, I may regret this but why "no".

That is true but it is not contradictory. Are you are confusing a liability - as in obligation - with a penalty - as in a fine?

Again, there is no obligation to tax a collection of shopping bags but there will remain an obligation to maintain SORN on an undeleted registration that no longer benefits from a VED, regardless of whether there are shopping bags or not. Tony

That's wot he said only better