1998 Grand Caravan

Page 6 of 13  
So you claim to know most of the engineers in the world, or just most of them in your little world?
I've known 11 personally and 6 of those couldn't pour water out of a boot
with directions on the heel.
--
Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9
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Budd Cochran wrote:

So are you going to apply the same analysis to everyone who works as a mechanic? Hate to tell you, but the ratios of bad mechanics are a lot worse. Let's start with WalMart, Jiffie Lube, independent shops, dealer shops, shops in the back of NAPA stores, etc., etc., etc. - you've gotta throw all those into the mix - i.e., you can't skew the results by eliminating certain categories first before you apply the analysis. :)
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

Hi...
About twenty years ago had 4 dealership mechanics. Defining mechanics all these four were well experienced, all worked together in the same dealership, and at *least* one was fully licensed. (worked on brakes, steering, etc)
They told me, argued with me, that they had found the cure of all energy problems. All they needed to do was attach an electric motor to each wheel, and an alternator to each wheel. Start it going with the gas engine and from then on it would keep going "forever".
They were dead serious. Sent in one of those rip-off applications to one of the USA patent companies, who told them their idea was wonderful, and to send their cheque for further investigation. They sent their cheque. Nothing would convince them not to :)
Ken
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Ken Weitzel wrote:

Yep - just like a week or so ago someone here claiming that an alternator with a working regulator would provide fully regulated voltage no matter what - another perpetual motion machine.
These are the same guys who will out of hand reject engineers for spouting their laws of physics.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Thats another lie. But keep going, I'm beginning to to see a pattern here. The context was "at any RPM", which when speaking of an automobile is anything from idle on up, and nothing below. But of course instead of using facts, you and others stretched things out of context. Nothing new there.

I don't "out of hand reject engineers", I reject those that won't follow good diagnostic method, rely on something other than facts to "prove" themselves correct, and generally lack the basic sense to realize that while they are rejecting proven method, they are describing how they would take six extra steps to find the same info the proven method would reveal.
--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
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Max Dodge wrote:

It *was* in the context of idle and on up.
Here's part of the dialogue from that thread (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos/browse_frm/thread/f787fc5ec44ac422/5822519de5a6e323?lnk=st&q=amps+volts+increase+group%3Arec.autos.makers.chrysler&rnum=1&hl=en#5822519de5a6e323 ):
Me: "A regulator cannot force an alternator to put out full regulated voltage if the alternator is not turning fast enough - often the case at idle on vehicles with typical loads turned on."
(see how I was talking about real world cars at idle)
Your response: "False. Voltage will be at whatever the VR sets it to be, regardless of RPM. CURRENT on the other hand, may vary due to load and RPM."
There are at least two problems with what you said: (1) It disagrees with the inarguable fact that the voltage in many cars will drop a little at idle as the engineers designed the alternator speed at the edge of its capability to produce the voltage that the regulator is demanding for the idle speed and nominal loads. (2) You say that voltage will not vary with rpm, yet current will. A denial of Ohm's law.
Another place in the same thread, you said: "Revving the engine will do NOTHING to increase alternator output voltage; amperage maybe a little."
Again - an ignorance/denial of the laws of physics (primarily and fundamentally Ohm's law). You made a real world observation but failed to make the real world connection to the laws of physics that control the real world (see next paragraph).
Some of you guys seem to think that laws of physics are an inconvenience that get in the way of understanding real world observations. For one, if you had an understanding of the theory, the first time you caught your brain thinking: "I didn't vary the electrical load - I know voltage was constant - the regulator will ensure that. Yet, I saw the ammeter change when I rev'ed the engine. Hmmm - constant load, constant voltage, yet current changed - that seems to violate Ohm's law - which I know to be true. I better check this out!" So you get your voltmeter out and discover that - "...lo and behold - the voltage actually does increase a little when I rev the engine above idle. Well what'd'ya know - it doesn't' violate Ohm's law - Ohm's law said that if the load is constant and the current changes, the voltage must be changing too. I guess my assumption that the voltage will be fully regulated even at idle speeds was incorrect". So you see how knowing the theory helped you fine tune your erroneous real world understanding (I mean the generic 'you' in that sentence - you probably still won't see it, and will resent my even illustrating this absolute truth to you).
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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--
"Bill Putney" < snipped-for-privacy@kinez.net> wrote in message
news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net...
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Bill Putney wrote:

Independent shops are often the best source for "outside the box" repairs for items that, according to engineers, can't be repaired. I've done it few times myself.
Now, I can agree readily that I don't consider MOST of the technician staff in Wal-Mart, Jiffy Lube, et al, to be skilled mechanics. Many were hired off the street, I'm sure.
I've never dealt with a NAPA shop except to have brake rotors and drums turned and they older gentleman did an excellent job.
As for dealer shops . . .I've worked in one dealership and only one mechanic in that dealership, the head mechanic, was worth his salt. Btw, no, I was not working there as a mechanic, fyi.
So, yes, certain "categories" can be excluded as they are not trained or experienced mechanics.
Now, should we include medical equipment engineers? Railroad engineers? Ships engineers? Combat Engineers? Hey, all are "engineeers", aren't they?
Budd
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Budd Cochran wrote:

They are if they have an engineering degree from an ABET accredited university. If they don't, then they aren't unless they hold the PE license.
Matt
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Aha, so you do want to be selective, but will not allow me the same privilege.
--
Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9
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Budd Cochran wrote:

I never said you had to be selective.
Matt
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No, you didn't, but you did try to DENY me the option to be selective.
--
Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9
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Another fine example of how engineers have little time for those without better credentials than their own.
Those mentioned by Budd are in fact engineers, just not the same type as your exalted number crunching know-it-alls. Most of those named by Budd probably know more about their respective equipment than the engineers that created the equipment on paper.
--
Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
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Budd Cochran wrote:

Nope, never made any such claim nor did Bill. Read again what he wrote, more slowly this time, and see if you can figure out what he said.

You must hang around with a bunch of ignorant people then. I know a couple hundred or more personally (I manager a group with nearly 40) and I don't think 5 of the ones I know could be categorized as you suggest.
Matt
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I'm sorry, didn't mean to speak over your head. It was a reply to the implication of the supposed superiority of the overly educated over that of lowly high school graduates.
Oh, and it was as sarcastic as it reads.

Well, let's see. . . they were the engineers for an automotive muffler factory and one of them came out of his air conditioned office, measured and took notes on a machine built by a member of the millwright crew,, then went in his office, drew up a set of blueprints and took full credit ( and the monetary bonus) for the machine. two weeks later, he ordered extra steel added which took the machine outside design parametres and nearly made it useless.
The rest of what you called "ignorant" were good ol' boys from KY and TN that simply lacked a high school education . . but they weren't stupid.

Send me an email to remind impressed with this later, OK?

Gee whiz, I'll just bet there ain't a single automotive engineering major in the lot of them. And if there is, he's not employed in tha automotive industry. . . .and that makes me wonder "why?"
--
Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9
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Well Budd, unless you do, what exactly is your point?
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving



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Mechanic he calls me..LOL...
No....Im just a low life could have been mech e that instead of sticking with MBB.....thats an aircraft firm you now call AirBus BTW, or sticking with the familys business...(thats a Dodge dealership on dads side, and some higher ups with Chrysler over the years on moms) just owns a fairly busy HVAC outfit thats going commercial, and knows what damn idiots most overschooled engineers can be... Of course, you assume as well that I just walked in here..and you cant be farther from the truth...but its ok...its normal for you to assume as thats the way you are taught.

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CAVHBC wrote:

OK - so some of these guys maybe have the valid excuse that they didn''t have the educational opportunities. You, on the other hand, apparently had the means to learn and better yourself, but, thru laziness or having everything handed to you or whatever, chose not to cure the gross ignorance that you have displayed.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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OR, I chose to keep it all simple for you to understand, since most MEs I know, cant understand the simple fact that two objects, can not occupy the same space at the same time.
OR....
I just wanted to see how easy it was to pull someones strings that was trying to show the world how educated he wasnt...worked well.
Oh....BTW...through laz..what? Im sorry, I cant even begin to spell the word.....lazy you say? Sure man..whatever. Already proved that we knew what direction this would take, and how to get it there...you just were not involved in that conversation...
Never know when you are getting played...so continue at will.

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CAVHBC wrote:

Suggest you start your self-improvement by taking some writing classes. Two unnecessary commas, "can't" has an apostrophe. Of course you'll claim here that you were playing dumb - except it's obvious that you're not playing.

"Someone's" = possesive - requires apostrophe. "Wasn't" - a contraction - needs an apostrophe.

You obviously don't understand the meaning of the word "proved", and I guess that's the proverbial Queen's 'we'.

Whatever, your royal weirdness.

You can probably catch some summer classes, or if too late to sign up now, certainly in the fall.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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