2003 RAM 2500 Diesel towing do's and don'ts

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Sorry Max but I believe that public comfort was also mentioned by you. As for the public right, how things look and maintain property value is part of the public right.

LOL, and you keep thinking that.

The problem is that it usually takes more than two to come to an agreement about a fence. Now what happens if person A agrees with person B to let him build his 7 foot fence. Afterwards, person B desides he wants a fence as tall but person C (the neighbor on the other side of B) says that they are friggen ugly and he doesn't want it on his property line? Sounds like some real trouble will start then.

Sure it is if people in the neighborhood think that it's ugly and don't want them or it in their development.

In sound is usually only after a certian period of time and you can squeal those tires all day on your property according to you.

This is complete bullshit that you have no way in hell of backing up. Sorry Max, but just because a huge fence doesn't bother you doesn't mean that it bothers nobody.

It depends on the time and what the smell is comming from.

If people feel that is is a problem, then it is one, even if you don't agree. If the vehicle is huge and doesn't fit into the neighborhood, this it very much is the object itself that is offensive.

Sorry Max but you are wrong. If it is ok to park the Kenworth at his house, why not the trailer as well. Then hell, what if he has two or three of them. Why not park the entire fleet on his property. Where exactly do you draw the line Max?

Please list the specific crime or vehicle code that says you cannot warm up the Kenworth on a cold day. The public has the right to have piece in their neighborhood
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Actually that is not a true statement Tom. In Cochise County of AZ, there is absolutely no time frame governing the disturbance of ones domicile. In other words (for those that have a hard time following along) this means that if you and I were neighbors (god forbid) and it is noon, you are out in your yard doing what ever, I can call the cops, and they will respond, because you are disturbing my peace.
Something that I think everyone in here is forgetting is that laws, rules, regulations, et all are subjective to the area (county, city township, state) that you reside in and really can't be thrown around in the manner they have been in this thread.
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I've consistantly referred to one document and cited its source and applicability. ANyone who missed that is on their own.
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Max Dodge wrote:

So are you only referring to your particular area in what you are for or against? Or should people be able to do as they please nationwide in all neighborhoods?
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The document I have is specific to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. However, I believe that any property owner, so long as they follow the zoning codes, should do as they see fit with their land where ever it may be.
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And it's thoughts like this that created the very laws that you hate.
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I know you have Max, but it appears that there have been "arduements" made about what you are citing, and the basis of said "arguements" are codes/laws from other states. That is the point I was trying to make.
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Certainly codes and law differ a bit. However, I doubt they are so different as to be far from the case law set forth by the document I have.
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Lets assume that property value falls under the public comfort, which it does not. (Public comfort is such things as loud noises, offensive odors and the like, NOT financial well being.)
Fine. Now, explain how a 7' fence lowers property value any more than a 5' fence. Tell me how a fence is a hazard to the public.

Its true. My Rights go as far as your Rights. As long as I do not infringe your Rights, I can do as I see fit within my Rights. Anyone who argues differently fails to read what is written.

I disagree. If A and B agree, then the fence goes up. If B and C cannot agree, THEN the codes serve as the guideline. But in the case of the agreement between A and B, why would the government step in if neither one has a problem?

Sorry, that doesn't fly. Personal taste isn't part of the law, and the document I have specifically states that:
"Municipalities do not have the authority to declare something a nuisance per se, but rather may only prohibit nuisances in fact. To constitute the kind of nuisance in fact that a municipality may prohibit, the conduct or condition must be an inconvenience or a troublesome offense that annoys the community as opposed to some particular person."
In effect then, it means that simply because one person feels a fence is ugly, or that it makes his property values drop, it is not assumed that the fence is a nuisance.

I can back it up, and have the documents to prove it. The fence has to be a public problem, not an individual problem in order to be an offense, according to PA guidelines based on case law.

Sorry, but it still must conform to the guidleines set forth, and simply being "huge" or "not fitting" isn't a legal criteria.

If all he does is park a company vehicle on his land, thats a far cry from parking a company fleet at the house. The line is drawn when it corsses the ZONING code requiements, not the PROPERTY code requirements.

You've answered your question. When it disturbs the peace, a commonly known summary violation.
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Max Dodge wrote:

Actually in many areas it does. Often when an area bordering a residential neighborhood the resulting court battle is centered on reduction of property values. Same thing when certain businesses wish to build next to a neighborhood. They often when on the financial concerns.

Why does it have to be a hazard to be unacceptable? If it alters the basic look of the neighborhood against the CC&Rs or other restrictions then it shouldnt be allowed. Why 7'? How about a 20' brick fence? That ok? How about a monstorous 3 or 4 story mega house built in the middle of simple small 1 story homes? How about a mobile home complete with busted down cars out front being put up among high $ elaborate homes?
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I am certain that court battles do occur. However, you fail to mention any examples, nor how those particular cases were decided. Interestingly, I'd bet the solution in many cases is to allow the homeowner to erect a 7' fence.

Because the law requires it. Would you like to see the documents to which I refer?

Why 5'? As to "basic look", WTF is that?? Again, this is not something that can be decided upon "because you don't like it," it has to pose a hazard to the public.

Yup.
Wouldn't bother me a bit.

Again, the "busted down cars" might be proven to be a hazard to the public. The mobile home would have to fit the building code, a seperate set of codes from the property codes, that I've already said I agree with.
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It would seem that a definition of these "property codes" would help.

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A definition of "property codes", as determined by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, are codes that determine maintenance and sundry things such as grass height, tree trimming, pavement area, parking spaces, etc.
Building codes are that set of regulations that determine how a building may be constructed, with regard to materials and standards for structure, electrical, plumbing and waste.
Zoning Codes are the set of regulations that determine what areas of land may be used for specific things such as agriculture, manufacturing, business and residential.
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Seems like in MA some of PA's property codes are covered in MA zoning law. The number and size of parking spaces are regulated by zoning. MA doesn't have separate property codes. Do PA cities utilize a "Planning Board" or "Conservation Board"?
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Some towns have a planning commission, depending on the size of the town and if there is reason to use more than just the codes enforcement officer. It seems to depend more on what is being built in town than if there should actually be a plan.
We have "Historical Architecture Review Boards". HARB can be as idiotic and as helpful as the individuals on them want to be. In a local town, HARB refused to allow vinyl siding to be installed over wood siding despite the fact that the vinyl was exactly the same in color, dimension and reveal as the original wood siding. When the public caught wind of this, they arrived at the board meeting with intent to disassemble the board.
A word on the codes officer: He is not certified to enforce the building code, and is only tasked with finding property code violations. IOW, his task is mostly to provide income via fines. His position is a duplicate; the county is required by the state to have a codes officer, who IS certified to check building, zoning, and property codes. Furthermore, the borough building codes are overseen by a private company, which is paid the same per year as the codes enforcement officer gets.
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Max Dodge wrote:

A city can dictate the architectural styling of a building. Here in Phoenix Walmart wants to put up one of their super box stores. The local council has told Walmart it must be built to blend in architecturally with the neighborhood and not look like a typical box store. They have laws on the books for this purpose. Are these laws zoning, building codes or are they property codes that you oppose?
Another place to look at is Mammoth Lakes, California. It is a mountain resort city. All of the buildings must look somewhat rustic, wood facades, roofs, dark colors etc. Signs must be ground mounted with limits on their lighting so as not to stand out. Homes must also be built with similar restrictions. A free for all no property code that policy you seem to be for would destroy such a town.
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Max Dodge wrote:

That could be. I don't have any problem with a 7' fence in general. It depends on the neighborhood. If I lived in an area where nobody had any fences resulting in a rather open natural country look then I would be upset at someone building a large brick fence.
Where I live it would be a problem if someone didn't have a fence rather than the other way around. Just depends on the area.

You told me the laws are worthless because they are unconstitutional. I asked to state where in the constitution it mentions that and you referred me to the 10th amendement...which does not prohibit such laws.

In many neighborhoods one can't build a structure that doesn't architecturally fit in to the surrounding terrain and buildings. The building permit will be rejected. I agree with much of these codes. It would look horrible to have an anything goes policy.

Now you are talking about YOUR particular area and not policies in general. I already stated that laws do exist for particular neighborhoods and people buy there with those laws in mind as to what they can and cannot do.

It would bother many others and create a horrible neighborhood to not have any structured policies at all.
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My neighbor in Maryland built an 8' fence in a neighborhood that has no fences. No one complained, and I doubt it did anything to the property value, although it may have gone up due to the fence. I wasn't consulted, but then it doesn't front on my property. Its 60' from it, since we have a 60' wide right of way between the properties. Its my opinion that he put it up because the ROW is not private property and anyone could have walked on that strip of land. I don't mind it being there at all.

It does, but one must follow the legal paperwork trail of case law to see that fact.

Again, I don't have a problem with building codes. Its the property codes which are a mess and infringe on the rights of a private owner.

In my particular state. And thats what I've said since the beginning, with documentation to back what I've said.

1) You cannot assume what others would be bothered by. 2) You cannot assume it would be a "horrible neighborhood".
Again, if building codes allowed it, no problem.
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Max Dodge wrote:

Say there was no public right of way between properties. Here most property boundries run right up to the neighbors. There are codes that stipulate how far back from the property line a dwelling must be but no such laws about where to place a fence. Would you have minded if the fence was built right up against your property line?

This is very true and is exactly why an anything goes policy that says I don't give a damn about whether anything bothers the neighbors is a bad idea.

Thats true but the lack of any rules allows it to happen and does nothing to prevent it. The worst looking neighborhoods around here are the ones where either there are lax property laws or they are not enforced.
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Nope. If he had run it out to the bay maybe, but even then it wouldn't be a bad idea. Down there, its all about privacy.

Sorry Miles, but the reality is someone will be insulted somewhere, and thats part of life. So if I choose to put up a fence, and the only person I consult is the neighbor who will have the fence along his property, tough shit for the rest of the neighborhood. I'm sure some people don't like that I start my truck in the morning, or come home late at night. Too bad for them. They all seem to have gotten over it. Of course, I don't do stupid things and make a PITA of myself. That doesn't mean the neighbors like it, since they're new. The guy who moved out wanted me to move next door to his new house, claimed I was a quiet neighbor who wasn't a problem.

Yeah, and its such a horrible thing to deal with.....
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