Any MA inspection techs here? PCM swap/VIN?

Hi Folks,
Looking for info from anyone that does emission inspections in Massachusetts, especially if they have any experience with modded OBDII vehicles, or input from anyone that has been through any
similar transmission/PCM OBDII swaps in Massachusetts.
This subject is probably nowhere near as complicated as I'm making it out to be here but I have a couple of PCM swap questions that I can't seem to resolve.
The project - Put a 5spd NV trans in my 98 5.9 ZJ Jeep. I figure the easiest way is to use a PCM from a 98 5.9 5spd Ram.
Done extensive Googling on the subject and done search/FAQ on about two dozen Dodge/Jeep/Mopar forums. I've found out a lot but the info doesn't always agree from site to site and/or I'm not sure if other people's experience applies to the type of emissions inspections we do here.
Just came back from the place I got my sticker last time and he couldn't answer all of my questions off the top of his head because he had never seen anything similar done. (my vehicle is still stock at the moment)
The answers to all of these individual questions aren't as important as the whole idea of whether it can be done or not and how and what actually comes into play.
So, the main questions: 1 - Do all states have the same emissions/inspection requirements as Massachusetts now that OBDII is around? If not, what other states do? 2 - The emission inspection machines in MA reads the VIN through the OBDII port, correct? Does the tech also have to manually enter the VIN and/or verify that it agrees with the PCM VIN? 3 - Any CEL/code will automatically fail a vehicle through the machine, yes? 4 - If a vehicle has CEL/codes due to the missing auto trans is there any option in the machine for the tech to override or ignore the failure that wouldn't really apply since it wouldn't have the automatic in it anymore? 5 - The best way around this is to use the PCM from a 5.9/5spd Ram? 6 - Can a new VIN be flashed into a used PCM or not? Chrysler dealer says they can't do it but I'm not sure if that's a "they won't do it" issue or a "they actually can't do it" issue. Someone said the "Enter VIN" option doesn't come up on the DRB if the PCM already has a VIN. 7 - If the VINs can't be easily overwritten, used PCMs wouldn't have any value right? Maybe for use in non-inspection states? 8 - Do any digits in my vehicle's VIN specify the transmission type? (I don't think so) If they do - Maybe I'm getting too crazy here - does that figure of the VIN actually have any input as to how the PCM operates, or is the VIN flash just an internal "label"? 9 - Do any other scanners have the ability to overwrite VINs or delete them? 10 - I know B&G charges $130 for VIN flash and $430 for a custom flash. Is overwriting the VIN considered custom? 11 - Can my 5.9/auto trans PCM be reflashed deep enough to eliminate the "looking for auto trans" inputs? I talked to B&G about this swap but it was at about 4:59 on a Friday. I didn't have the heart to keep them there answering questions about a swap that probably had them questioning my sanity anyway :-) 12 - Do the Ram trucks have BCMs and is that a factor in this swap? 13 - The alarm/disable issue - (VTSS?) I've heard the PCM from a factory alarm vehicle can only go into another factory alarm vehicle. A "non-alarm" PCM can go into either one.
I'll try B&G again sometime soon but figured I'd post here first to see if anyone had any experience with similar swaps in Mass. Besides, I think most performance flashes are designated "For off road use only" so they may not take these inspection issues into account.
Like I said, so much info/so many conflicting answers. I know there can be issues with the seatbelt warning lights and/or the ABS lights etc, others say that's not a problem as long as the PCM has any VIN number in it.
The nuts and bolts of the swap isn't that crazy but I don't want to start buying parts til I solve the last few issues.
Thanks for any replies - John
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The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does the inspections and either manually enter data or put the sniffer inanother car or truck.
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> Roy wrote: > The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does the inspections and > either manually enter data or put the sniffer inanother car or truck.
Thanks Roy.
That's old school. Been there, done that.
Won't work in this case though. They plug the inspection machine rihgt into the OBDII port under the dash.
Not only does it pick up any fault codes but it reads the VIN and that has to match the VIN on the registration.
I think I can use the Dodge 5spd PCM as long as I can put my VIN into it.
Thanks again - John
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Showing my age I guess.

IIrc they did not do this last Nov. on my truck.
Roy
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Your truck was a diesel and I'm not sure if there is an emissions inspection for diesels there. There isn't here in NC, just the safety inspection for diesel and older vehicles.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

"Roy" < snipped-for-privacy@Fhome.net> wrote in message
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beekeep
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Z88Z wrote:

Ever considered switching your PCM to "extremely high voltage diagnostic operation"?
Those opto-isolators gotta give up at some point :)
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I note the :) at the end of you post, but opto-isolators and ODBII? I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I have only seen copper. I'm not a professional service technician, which makes me curious, do any vehicles us opto-isolators?

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Ed H. wrote:

Like the "photo-optic LED triggering system" found in Mallory Unilite distributors?
--
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opto-isolator
These things are pretty neat. If the device is properly designed you only have to replace the chip (or the board with the chip on it, depending on how its engineered) to get the circuit to work again if it encounters something severely out of spec.
Ed H. wrote:

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> Z88Z wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Looking for info from anyone that does emission inspections in Massachusetts, especially if they have any experience with modded OBDII vehicles, or input from anyone that has been through any similar transmission/PCM OBDII swaps in Massachusetts. > > This subject is probably nowhere near as complicated as I'm making it out to be here but I have a couple of PCM swap questions that I can't seem to resolve. > > The project - Put a 5spd NV trans in my 98 5.9 ZJ Jeep. I figure the easiest way is to use a PCM from a 98 5.9 5spd Ram. > > Done extensive Googling on the subject and done search/FAQ on about two dozen Dodge/Jeep/Mopar forums. I've found out a lot but the info doesn't always agree from site to site and/or I'm not sure if other people's experience applies to the type of emissions inspections we do here. > > Just came back from the place I got my sticker last time and he couldn't answer all of my questions off the top of his head because he had never seen anything similar done. (my vehicle is still stock at the moment) > > The answers to all of these individual questions aren't as important as the whole idea of whether it can be done or not and how and what actually comes into play. > > So, the main questions: > 1 - Do all states have the same emissions/inspection requirements as Massachusetts now that OBDII is around? If not, what other states do? > 2 - The emission inspection machines in MA reads the VIN through the OBDII port, correct? Does the tech also have to manually enter the VIN and/or verify that it agrees with the PCM VIN? > 3 - Any CEL/code will automatically fail a vehicle through the machine, yes? > 4 - If a vehicle has CEL/codes due to the missing auto trans is there any option in the machine for the tech to override or ignore the failure that wouldn't really apply since it wouldn't have the automatic in it anymore? > 5 - The best way around this is to use the PCM from a 5.9/5spd Ram? > 6 - Can a new VIN be flashed into a used PCM or not? Chrysler dealer says they can't do it but I'm not sure if that's a "they won't do it" issue or a "they actually can't do it" issue. Someone said the "Enter VIN" option doesn't come up on the DRB if the PCM already has a VIN.
> 7 - If the VINs can't be easily overwritten, used PCMs wouldn't have any value right? Maybe for use in non-inspection states? > 8 - Do any digits in my vehicle's VIN specify the transmission type? (I don't think so) If they do - Maybe I'm getting too crazy here - does that figure of the VIN actually have any input as to how the PCM operates, or is the VIN flash just an internal "label"?
> 9 - Do any other scanners have the ability to overwrite VINs or delete them?
> 10 - I know B&G charges $130 for VIN flash and $430 for a custom flash. Is overwriting the VIN considered custom? > 11 - Can my 5.9/auto trans PCM be reflashed deep enough to eliminate the "looking for auto trans" inputs? I talked to B&G about this swap but it was at about 4:59 on a Friday. I didn't have the heart to keep them there answering questions about a swap that probably had them questioning my sanity anyway :-) > 12 - Do the Ram trucks have BCMs and is that a factor in this swap? > 13 - The alarm/disable issue - (VTSS?) I've heard the PCM from a factory alarm vehicle can only go into another factory alarm vehicle. A "non-alarm" PCM can go into either one. > > I'll try B&G again sometime soon but figured I'd post here first to see if anyone had any experience with similar swaps in Mass. Besides, I think most performance flashes are designated "For off road use only" so they may not take these inspection issues into account. > > Like I said, so much info/so many conflicting answers. I know there can be issues with the seatbelt warning lights and/or the ABS lights etc, others say that's not a problem as long as the PCM has any VIN number in it. > > The nuts and bolts of the swap isn't that crazy but I don't want to start buying parts til I solve the last few issues. > > Thanks for any replies - John
Like I said Roy, have to admit I've done that once or twice back in the day. We must be from the same era :-) I want to do this swap right so I don't have to fudge anything.
I don't think you said what state you are in. In MA they do safety every year and emissions every other year. That's why this gets kinda crazy. I don't think all the people giving advice necessarily have to deal with the same inspection requirements and practices. For instance, a reply elsewhere said that in PA the VIN is printed as a bar code on the vehicles registration card too. They do the OBDII check and also use a bar code scanner on the registration. If they don't match it will fail. Besides, I'm not sure all states even do emissions testing.
Talked to B&G Performance and another guy today.
B&G is pretty sure they can help me either way - They can rewrite my Jeep 5.9/auto PCM so it doesn't have auto trans parameters at all or they can rewrite the VIN on a Dodge 5.9/5spd Ram PCM. They would have to write custom parameters into either PCM to make it work so I'm looking at a $430 custom flash instead of a $130 VIN flash. If I have to go that route I'll use B&G.
I talked to another shop in MA that does offroad builds. He said he really didn't have any familiarity with that kind of stuff but he did bring up a good point. He said (if I was right) that if the machine kicks it back because it doesn't agree with the VIN or because the tech can't confirm it, then in theory they have made it illegal in MA to use a used PCM. I still think there must be scanners out there that will delete or overwrite the VIN on a used PCM.
If I go ahead with this I think I will try the Ram PCM as it is first, see if all the other stuff agrees, the ABS/seatbelt etc lights. Then take it to any station that does inspections and have them run it through the OBDII stuff and see what comes of it.
Hi TBone, Not sure who you meant about having a diesel, me or Roy? The only diesels I drive weigh about 200K :-)
When I get definite answers I'll post the info. Til then I have a few other questions I'll be posting.
Thanks folks - John
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MA for about 50 years. Now in FL, will be back in MA next month.

That would be me.

Are they powered by EMD?
Roy

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> > > > > We must be from the same era :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > MA for about 50 years. Now in FL, will be back in MA next month. > > > Z88Z wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yup, same age group :-) > > > I love Florida. Born/raised in MA, moved to Orlando in 90', then to the West Palm Beach area to be near my sister and folks from 91' to 94'. > > > My daughter was born in WPB a few months before we moved back up here to MA. > > > > > > Found great info on this site below. Didn't really answer any of my questions but it explained the basics. > > > > > > http://www.vehicletest.state.ma.us/faqs.html > > >
> > > 96 and later OBDII AWD vehicles use the machine only (I guess 2WD use the machine and a roller stand for a "driving" test. > > > 83 to 96 - sniffer test only. > > > Diesels - No test. > > > 83 and earlier gas vehicles - No test!
> > > > > > The only diesels I drive weigh about 200K :-) > > >
""Roy"Are they powered by EMD?
We have switch engines with of about 1,000 to 1,500 HP and "road switchers" with about 3K HP that are EMDs (just a big Chevy!) Our passenger road units are about 3K HP GEs. We also just got EMD switchers that were rebuilt with Caterpillar engines! The best are the all electric engines - 7K to 8K HP although 1 type has been derated to 4 or 5K HP.
In fact, I have to go run some of those right now!
Take care - John
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You must work for Amtrak at South Hampton Street.
Roy

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> snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: > Ever considered switching your PCM to "extremely high voltage diagnostic operation"? > > Those opto-isolators gotta give up at some point :)
Umm, I'm not familiar with that concept.
Is that one of those things like, the relativity cadenza module gasket is bad.... or as a friend used to say "the beau gear jumped the heifer shaft?"
Beekeep, Are senior citizens in Maryland exempt from having their cars inspected or are senior cars in Maryland exempt from having their citizens inspected? Or are senior cars exempt from the inspection?
Sorry, it's Friday! LOL :-)
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wrote:

uses light, instead of voltage, to transmit the state of a circuit across the bridge. They are useful in applications in which you want to ensure current won't arc across the bridge (i.e. a water slide flow rate gauge connected to a 220V AC pump.

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> > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > Looking for info from anyone that does emission inspections in Massachusetts, especially if they have any experience with modded OBDII vehicles, or input from anyone that has been through any similar transmission/PCM OBDII swaps in Massachusetts. > > > > > > This subject is probably nowhere near as complicated as I'm making it out to be here but I have a couple of PCM swap questions that I can't seem to resolve. > > > > > > The project - Put a 5spd NV trans in my 98 5.9 ZJ Jeep. I figure the easiest way is to use a PCM from a 98 5.9 5spd Ram. > > > > > > Done extensive Googling on the subject and done search/FAQ on about two dozen Dodge/Jeep/Mopar forums. I've found out a lot but the info doesn't always agree from site to site and/or I'm not sure if other people's experience applies to the type of emissions inspections we do here. > > > > > > Just came back from the place I got my sticker last time and he couldn't answer all of my questions off the top of his head because he had never seen anything similar done. (my vehicle is still stock at the moment) > > > > > > The answers to all of these individual questions aren't as important as the whole idea of whether it can be done or not and how and what actually comes into play. > > > > > > So, the main questions: > > > 1 - Do all states have the same emissions/inspection requirements as Massachusetts now that OBDII is around? If not, what other states do? > > > 2 - The emission inspection machines in MA reads the VIN through the OBDII port, correct? Does the tech also have to manually enter the VIN and/or verify that it agrees with the PCM VIN? > > > 3 - Any CEL/code will automatically fail a vehicle through the machine, yes? > > > 4 - If a vehicle has CEL/codes due to the missing auto trans is there any option in the machine for the tech to override or ignore the failure that wouldn't really apply since it wouldn't have the automatic in it anymore? > > > 5 - The best way around this is to use the PCM from a 5.9/5spd Ram? > > > 6 - Can a new VIN be flashed into a used PCM or not? Chrysler dealer says they can't do it but I'm not sure if that's a "they won't do it" issue or a "they actually can't do it" issue. Someone said the "Enter VIN" option doesn't come up on the DRB if the PCM already has a VIN. > > > 7 - If the VINs can't be easily overwritten, used PCMs wouldn't have any value right? Maybe for use in non-inspection states? > > > 8 - Do any digits in my vehicle's VIN specify the transmission type? (I don't think so) If they do - Maybe I'm getting too crazy here - does that figure of the VIN actually have any input as to how the PCM operates, or is the VIN flash just an internal "label"?
> > > 9 - Do any other scanners have the ability to overwrite VINs or delete them? > > > 10 - I know B&G charges $130 for VIN flash and $430 for a custom flash. Is overwriting the VIN considered custom? > > > 11 - Can my 5.9/auto trans PCM be reflashed deep enough to eliminate the "looking for auto trans" inputs? I talked to B&G about this swap but it was at about 4:59 on a Friday. I didn't have the heart to keep them there answering questions about a swap that probably had them questioning my sanity anyway :-) > > > 12 - Do the Ram trucks have BCMs and is that a factor in this swap? > > > 13 - The alarm/disable issue - (VTSS?) I've heard the PCM from a factory alarm vehicle can only go into another factory alarm vehicle. A "non-alarm" PCM can go into either one. > > > > > > I'll try B&G again sometime soon but figured I'd post here first to see if anyone had any experience with similar swaps in Mass. Besides, I think most performance flashes are designated "For off road use only" so they may not take these inspection issues into account. > > > > > > Like I said, so much info/so many conflicting answers. I know there can be issues with the seatbelt warning lights and/or the ABS lights etc, others say that's not a problem as long as the PCM has any VIN number in it. > > > > > > The nuts and bolts of the swap isn't that crazy but I don't want to start buying parts til I solve the last few issues. > > > > > > Thanks for any replies - John
I note the :) at the end of you post, but opto-isolators and ODBII? I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I have only seen copper. I'm not a professional service technician, which makes me curious, do any vehicles us opto-isolators?
Sorry,
You mean that's a real thing and he wasn't pulling my leg? Sounded like some of the made up stuff we used to say to confuse the non-mechanics around us.
Gotta admit if it's a real thing I've never even heard of it. I'll Google it later as I have to run out now.
All I can say is, whatever an opto-isolator is, it sounds expensive! :-)
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