1st Gen motor swap questions

A few more questions...what was the last year of the big block 400's in the Trans Am's? Thanks

Chad

If you mean the "real" Pontiac 400, that would be 1979.

1980 brought us the Turbo 301. 1982 brought us the Iron Duke. A 2.5l, 4cylinder sub-100 horsepower Firebird. A real collector's edition. ;)

Ray

1980 TA 2001 TA

The last year for the Pontiac 400 was 1979. As for the "big block 400", no such animal exists as all Pontiac engines are the same exteral size (with exception to the 265/301 POS's)

Thanks guys. One more question, my Dad has a 69' GTO with a 400, and that thing is rated at 366 HP, and that motor moves that big ol' GTO like a rocket. What are the major differences between something like a 69' 400, and one of the choked down ones from the mid to late 70's? I'm guessing heads are an obvious difference, but are there any physical differences in the blocks themselves? I'd like to get something with around 350-400 horsepower, without pouring a ton of money into it. It's gonna be a lot easier to find a

400 out of a variety of 70's Pontiacs than it will be to find one of the great ones from the 60's. Thanks

Chad

Heads, Cam and Compression. The further you go into the 70's it seems the smaller the ports get, the flatter the cams get, and the lower the compression gets.

I _believe_ the blocks are mostly the same, but I'm not an expert. You definitely want to dig up some Hi Performance Pontiac mags. Changes I know of - 66-67ish the intake/heads changed design and are not compatible across these years. I forget which way it goes, but there are differences in motor mount bosses as well. You definitely need to dig up a good Pontiac engine book - there are some subtle differences in the different sizes. Failing that, I believe Dennis Smith is the resident Pontiac V8 guru. :)

Like Ray said, heads, cam, intake, and compression are the big difference. Your dad's 400 runs around 10.5:1 compression which in this day and age of crappy gasoline requires some 110 octane racing fuel to mixed with Premium unleaded to prevent any detonation. At approx $3-4 a gallon racing fuel can get expensive real quick!

The 6X head used during the mid-late 70's provides good performance for the money. They give around 9:1 compression on a 400 so you can get by with normal pump gas.

Most of the cast iron intakes from the mid-70s were emission hogs and should be replaced with something from 73 or older. Better yet would be an aluminum RA IV/455 HO intake from 69-72 but those fetch $500.

70-76ish blocks will have motor mount bosses for 69 and older/big cars AND 70-81 2nd-gen Firebird motor mounts. I think starting in 77 Pontiac started lightening up the blocks and only bosses for the later Firebird style were cast. I know they make "kits" to adapt a pre-1970 block into a 1970 and newer Firebird but I'm not sure if there are kits to go the other way.

Thanks for the great info. Looks like I MAY have found a '67 Firebid set up the way I want it though! Just checked the paper this morning and there is a restored '67 Firebird, 400, 4-speed in there for $6700. No one home at the phone # right now though!

Does this sound like a pretty fair price? I'm near Carlisle PA, and was going to head down there to the Fall show in the beginning of October...not sure what kind of price I'll run into down there though, so I might jump on this one. Any of you guys know what the average prices at Carlisle are for a car like this? Thanks

Chad

If it still has the original numbers matching drivetrain and has a solid body then $6700 sounds cheap. I would imagine a car like that being sold by a person "in the know" would be asking over $10,000.

Well...I got to talk the guy with the '67 on the phone tonight...and it's not an original 400 car. The guy says the car is fully restored though, I'm gonna go chek it out on Sunday and see what it's like. Since I'm looking for a driver, being totally original is not a big concern to me...but it would be nice. Thanks for the advice, and I'll post an update after I look at the car.

Chad