Ford - circling the drain

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LOL. I can remember my SO selling her old late 80's Camry - now that was a trip. It ran, but it leaked so much oil and transmission fluid she had to park it in the yard (off the paved driveway). The paint was shot and the interior too. The car was only about 8 years old but had close to 200K miles. I wouldn't have given you $5 for the car, but finally a Hispanic guy bought it for $500. I think she could have gotten more, but she just wanted to get rid of it - it was killing the grass in the yard. Last year I sold my 3 year old Thunderbird - bought it used for 26K, drove it for 2 years and 32K miles and sold it for 24K. Not too bad I think Of course it looked like new, and still had a few miles left on the original warranty. I also had good luck with a 1996 Explorer. I bought it new in late 1995 for $27k. The next year Ford introduced the Expedition, and I decided I wanted one of those instead. I was able to sell the 1 year old Explorer with 32K miles for $24K. It was only in the paper for a day. Of course it helped that it was still under warranty and it looked and ran just like new. Another Ford product I sold was a 1992 Grand Marquis (my parents car). It had around 90K on the odometer when I sold it for my parents in 2000. It looked like new and ran like new. I never even put it in the paper. I listed it on a local buy and sell web page and sold it the next day for my asking price. My worst mistake was selling my younger Sister's 1990 VW Passat. The car looked good but was a POS. Door handles would just fall off, neither rear power window worked properly, everything under the hood was coated in grease, etc, but it ran. I listed the thing for weeks in the local paper and on line. Finally two Mexican guys came to look at the car. We went for a test drive on the local interstate. They scared the s#$ out of me. The one guy drove like a mad man. Thank goodness they bought the car. The older I get, the less I want to deal with selling used cars. One of the local mechanics will sell them for you - he always has people looking for good used cars, so for a small fee, he will just let you leave a used car at his garage. He doesn't advertise, but enough people know the drill, that he usually sells them very quickly. Much better than trying to deal directly as far as I am concerned. My preference is to sell cars to people I never plan to see again. One time I made the mistake of selling one of my used cars to my Sister. For as long as she owned the car, I felt obligated to fix it - and she kept it far too long to suit me.
Ed
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The dealer will HELP you, dummy. If you do a trade through you will save on the state taxes ;)
mike

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dh wrote:

She or he's not fleecing you out of the money. The dealer has to go to the trouble of selling the car and takes the risk that there is a major problem with the car.
If you want to sell a car (or buy one), you can get reasonable prices for the car at kelly blue book and from NADA, all for free, on the internet.
If the dealer is taking advantage of you, it is only because you are letting him or her.
There is nothing that says you have to trade in your vehicle instead of selling it yourself.
Jeff
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Go reread the note from "Mike Hunter" of 6/4 1138A.

Right. That's why I do so.

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dh wrote:

Thanks. For me, it was 1238 (different time zones).

Exactly.
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Confused on yet another subject I see ;)
mike

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Mike Hunter wrote:

yes, as usual, Mike, you're confused.
Jeff

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You are the person who is confused, I understand full well the tax and fee saving available with a trade through at a dealership, when one sell their own vehicle at whatever price the seller has chosen to accept. The government fees alone, that both the buyer and seller can save are worth far more than the small fee the dealership charges. The various governments taxes saved can be rather high, depending on ones state
One again you demonstrate you do not understand the subject on which you have chosen to comment LOL

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The dealership does not "buy" or "sell" ones vehicle on a trade through.
mike

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Apparently you not nearly as smart as you think. I guess that explains why you choose to buy what you buy. The dealership has nothing to do with the price at which choose to you sell your car in a trade through, dummy. Not only can a trade through save you state taxes, a trade through at a dealership can save you money on the transfer fees, as well ;)
mike

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Mike Hunter wrote:

First, there is no reason to call anyone here names, like "dummy."
The dealership has nothing to do with the trade-in price? (I think that is what you meant. You said: "The dealership has nothing to do with the price at which choose to you sell your car in a trade through, dummy.") Someone who wasn't a dummy would write in English and proof-read what he writes, so we could understand what he means. Of course, people who aren't dummies are smart enough not to top-post either, so that we could follow the thread easily.
If the dealer doesn't determine the trade-in cost, who does? Didn't you say in a recent thread that import car brand dealers give less in trade-in than domestic brand dealers? This is a contradiction?
And can you please explain why the Kelly Blue Book (KBB) and NADA both list lower prices for tradeins than for private-party sells? Don't tell me that the dealer has to follow the KBB or NADA prices, though. The dealer and costumer ultimately set the price, not the KBB or NADA.
BTW, the title transfer fee in PA is $22.50. A huge savings.
Jeff

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There is if one can not understand the statement "The dealership has nothing to do with the price at which you choose to sell your car in a trade through." Dummy! ;)
mike

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Duh! They do not make their "econoboxes" in the US. They are all made off shore and import into the US.
mike
wrote in message
had a good answer.

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Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

I should have said, try Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Kia and Ford, with their Model T. Perhaps you heard of it. It made cars and pickups affordable for millions.
Jeff
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Your missing the point entirely. I said, noBODY made a name for themselves. I didn't say that there wern't famous econoboxes, and I definitely didn't say you could make money building them.
But with the exception of the model T, most people couldn't name one single exec or designer of any of those econoboxes. By contrast, if I were to say "Pontiac GTO" you would probably immediately think of John DeLorean, Corvette you might think of Larry Shinoda.
Just try to find out who the designer of the Datsun 210 was, I bet you can't. As I said, econoboxes aren't sexy, nobody in America made themselves famous being involved in bread and butter cars.
In other countries they don't have this problem - you probably could remember who was behind the VW Beatle.
Remember the Model T was pushed by the owner of Ford - who gained ALL the profits. Naturally, he was more concerned with money than making a name for himself. But the execs today aren't gambling their money - they get paid the same whether the company is successful or tanks - and so the are more full of themselves and more interested in building a sexy Resume they can take to the next host, should the existing one they are leeching off of, fail.
For all of Ford CEO Alan Mulally's bitching, I would bet money that if one of his execs did figure out how to make a profit on the Focus, the exec would get a pat on the head, while Alan would take all the credit and the stockholders take all the rewards.
Corporate America usually does not reward exceptional execs. Read just about any HR textbook today and they talk at great lengths about "environment" and "benefits" and other non-monetary rewards, to motivate employees. A midlevel manager can work late, weekends, and all of that to insure his department is profitable, but the company will only reward him if he goes out and finds another job at another company, then they will try last ditch attempts to match the other companys pay.
I figured this out for myself over 15 years ago (God, has it been that long?) I worked and did everything right for 4 years and did not get more than a 3% yearly raise, and saw outsiders hired in as managers over me, instead of being promoted. I finally got sick of waiting and over the subsequent 6 years hopped between 4 jobs and ended up getting management, money and all of that, far in advance if I had stayed, and for far more money.
HR people will even admit if you press them that it's politically easier to hire in a manager then promote from within, even if you can pay the person you promoted $20K a year less. That is why most managers do that rather than promoting. The same managers then whine about why none of their employees has any loyalty, and scream bloody murder and threaten to sue over non-compete agreements if employees quit and work elsewhere.
The Japanese culture is very different from the US culture. It could be that Japanese are not so jealous when a hardworking coworker gets promoted. It could be that Japanese managers are more willing to reward with cash. It could be that Japanese don't care as much about a better lifestyle that more money can bring. Whatever it is, the Japanese have apparently figured out how to get their executives to put the welfare of the company at least on par with their own welfare, and any American business that doesen't figure this out will get it's ass kicked in a global market.
And note, I am not talking about the production floor line workers, most of whom work hard and do a good job. But, these workers have no control of decisions in the company, and so when you see a faltering company, the first place to look to find the problem is in the decision makers - the operations managers and their superiors.
Ted
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Me thinks you need to do more research on Henry Ford and the Model "T," if that is what you believe.
Henry Ford is the man who said if your goal in going into business is to make money you are in trouble. Ones goal must be to obtain and retain customers, if you are to stay in business. If you do that the profits will take care of themselves.
Henry ford lowered the selling price of the model "T" every year, even as he added improvements the car, passing on the saving of the assembly line to his customers. He also introduced the highest pay scale in the country with what he called "The $5 day," to help buyer have more money to buy his cars. One of the reasons he eventually lost out to GMs Chevrolet was because he did not believe buyers wanted to buy fancier or more powerful cars
You obviously believe what Ford did but manufactures today know that is exactly what they want. The best selling car in ANY manufactures line up is not the smallest car nor is it the cheapest car in any of their individual models.
Every Japanese manufacture is making their cars, SUVs and trucks larger and more powerful than what they sold just five years ago. Even their fuel economy is not that great among cars and truck of the same size on the market. GM makes more models that get 30 MPG, or more, than does ANY import brand and they are doing it with the larger more powerful engines that buyers prefer. Toyotas newest truck does not get as good fuel mileage as do domestic trucks.
mike

Ted
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Your missing the point entirely. I said, noBODY made a name for themselves. I didn't say that there wern't famous econoboxes, and I definitely didn't say you could make money building them.
But with the exception of the model T, most people couldn't name one single exec or designer of any of those econoboxes. By contrast, if I were to say "Pontiac GTO" you would probably immediately think of John DeLorean, Corvette you might think of Larry Shinoda.
Just try to find out who the designer of the Datsun 210 was, I bet you can't. As I said, econoboxes aren't sexy, nobody in America made themselves famous being involved in bread and butter cars.
In other countries they don't have this problem - you probably could remember who was behind the VW Beatle.
Remember the Model T was pushed by the owner of Ford - who gained ALL the profits. Naturally, he was more concerned with money than making a name for himself. But the execs today aren't gambling their money - they get paid the same whether the company is successful or tanks - and so the are more full of themselves and more interested in building a sexy Resume they can take to the next host, should the existing one they are leeching off of, fail.
For all of Ford CEO Alan Mulally's bitching, I would bet money that if one of his execs did figure out how to make a profit on the Focus, the exec would get a pat on the head, while Alan would take all the credit and the stockholders take all the rewards.
Corporate America usually does not reward exceptional execs. Read just about any HR textbook today and they talk at great lengths about "environment" and "benefits" and other non-monetary rewards, to motivate employees. A midlevel manager can work late, weekends, and all of that to insure his department is profitable, but the company will only reward him if he goes out and finds another job at another company, then they will try last ditch attempts to match the other companys pay.
I figured this out for myself over 15 years ago (God, has it been that long?) I worked and did everything right for 4 years and did not get more than a 3% yearly raise, and saw outsiders hired in as managers over me, instead of being promoted. I finally got sick of waiting and over the subsequent 6 years hopped between 4 jobs and ended up getting management, money and all of that, far in advance if I had stayed, and for far more money.
HR people will even admit if you press them that it's politically easier to hire in a manager then promote from within, even if you can pay the person you promoted $20K a year less. That is why most managers do that rather than promoting. The same managers then whine about why none of their employees has any loyalty, and scream bloody murder and threaten to sue over non-compete agreements if employees quit and work elsewhere.
The Japanese culture is very different from the US culture. It could be that Japanese are not so jealous when a hardworking coworker gets promoted. It could be that Japanese managers are more willing to reward with cash. It could be that Japanese don't care as much about a better lifestyle that more money can bring. Whatever it is, the Japanese have apparently figured out how to get their executives to put the welfare of the company at least on par with their own welfare, and any American business that doesen't figure this out will get it's ass kicked in a global market.
And note, I am not talking about the production floor line workers, most of whom work hard and do a good job. But, these workers have no control of decisions in the company, and so when you see a faltering company, the first place to look to find the problem is in the decision makers - the operations managers and their superiors.
Ted
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