"ENVIRONUST"

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No. You can thank Richard Nixon, with his price controls.
In 1971, the wellhead price was capped at $5. By 1974 the world price was over $13. Those US wells remained shut until 1983, giving the Arabs and the Commies a bonanza to exploit.
--
Tegger


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What I meant to say was that you can thank OPEC for the kick in the ass, which lead (slowly) to changes here. Or, Nixon, as you correctly pointed out.
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If there had been real property rights to begin with, this wouldn't have happened.
--
Tegger


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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I already subscribe to the view that things such as energy efficiency and 'green' power generation from wind and tides (that decrease one's CO2 footprint) make sense, simply from a practical 'common-sense' viewpoint. No argument there.
What annoys me is the *compulsion* that these zealots want to impose on us.
For example, I've always been a great fan of CFL lighting. I started using them about 15 years ago and I now use them everywhere. Since laws have been proposed to BAN incandescents - I feel very uncomfortable about where this is going. Not least because GE and Philips are working on a new technology halogen incandescent lamp that they believe will equal CFL for efficiency *and* produce a superior qulaity of light. The 'greens' would have this valuable technical advance consigned to the dustbin of history. Shades of Mao's 'Cultural Revolution' and Big Brother methinks.
Graham
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Eeyore wrote:

Wow - I agree with Eeyore.

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On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:40:03 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Yeah, we get the point.
I'm doing me part. I just got a job where I have to drive 75 miles a day.
and I do it in my Supra...
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On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:17:16 +0000, Eeyore wrote:

That's because the current belief is fueled by Politics and Political Correctness far more than it is by fact...

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And there are still some people who believe the moon landings were faked. It takes all kinds.
--
Tegger


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On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:44:40 +0000, Tegger wrote:

What do you mean, ...Still think they were faked?
Don't you remember the press conference NASA had where they said they filmed the whole thing in a Nevada desert at night?
I sure do. Course, I also remember they said to keep the information from some of the more stupid peo...ple
Er, never mind!
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Global warming and global cooling have been around for as long as the earth has been in existence. It goes through cycles of warm and cool.
The real question is whether we are in a situation of perpetual warming heading toward disaster or whether this is just another warming cycle that will be followed by cooling. I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that.
As you mention below, a separate issue is whether mankind has actually contributed signficantly to this current trend in warming or whether our activities are coincidental with the global warmup that we are clearly experiencing. I think the picture is again not clear. One would be very alarmed if they looked at the significant retreat of the tidal glaciers in glacier bay alaska if they ignored the timeline. Indeed they have been retreating since 1790 with much of the reduction ocurring before 1900.

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On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:21:25 -0700, John S. wrote:

I posted plenty of info showing the 'regular' (as regular as they get...) cycles of warming and cooling. Well, 'cooling' is a bit of a misnomer...because usually after warming, there's an Ice Age!

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Man has only been recording decent weather data _anywhere_ since the 1880s, so I'd say the issue is far from settled. Remember "The Coming Ice Age" (Scientific American, 1978)? For all we know it may be back in fashion next decade.

That's only one of several unsettled questions. Before I jump on the Kyoto bandwagon I'd like to see open debate on at least these followup questions:
1. How much harm will GW actually do if it happens? And how much good? (For instance, I suspect places like Canada would become much more comfortable to live in and have higher crop yields than now.)
2. Quantify how much it will alleviate that harm if we make the changes. And how much it will cost, both in money and human lives.
(The EPA's CAFE rules now kill about 2200 people per year by forcing* them into smaller cars where they're more likely to die in wrecks. Anyone who still says the rules are a good thing ought to have to show that the pollution they avoid saves MORE human lives. I doubt it.)
* Yes, when the government limits the supply of large vehicles or makes them cost more it really is FORCING people out of them, even if the bureaucrats leave it up to the market to conduct the resulting game of "musical chairs".
3. In what cheaper ways might we either reverse the warming or alleviate the harm? Hint: If it happens and is bad, it's almost certainly cheap and easy to undo; see http://www.reason.com/9711/fe.benford.html .
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That all depends on how you force conservation and prevent pollution.
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Of course pollution is "real" and global warming is "real." The "real" problem however is some want to make it a political problem, and it is not. The debate is not whether there is pollution and global climate change, but if it is indeed caused by man. Do a search of site that point to the position of the sun and its activities, tectonic plate movements, historical cyclical climate changes etc., then decide where you stand, WBMA
mike

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And then of course, in true conservative fashion, ignore all other studies that may conflict with the party line.
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You are referring to the Bush hating lefty kooks, right? I never heard them as being called conservative lefty kooks, however LOL
mike
wrote:

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http://snipr.com/numbnuts_Nowitzki
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