Honda "sweet spot" ?

Hello all,
Looking to buy a (new) Accord in the next few weeks. Wondering where the "bang for the buck" curve peaks out on the Accord models? Don't want the
lowest base model, but probably not the ultimate highest one, either. Where's the good middle ground, maybe leaning a little towards the high end?
Second question: What's the thinking on the Civic Hybrid? Decent, or to be avoided?
Thanks.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


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Dan C wrote:

I'd avoid it. My '04 Civic (automatic, non-hybrid) routinely gets in excess of 40mpg on the highway. The hybrid's gas mileage is probably only slightly better, but it costs much more to purchase.
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:35:24 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:

Sounds right, thanks.
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Dan C wrote:

Hybrids are best suited for people who do lots of stop & go driving, and have to idle in stopped traffic a lot. The Camry hybrid is also good for people who want a full-sized sedan with econobox MPG.
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Hybrids shine where little engine power is used and - theoretically - even in highway travel by virtue of being able to resize the engine without affecting responsiveness. A central characteristic of hybridization is the separation of engine power from performance. A serial hybrid (none in production yet) is an EV with on-board generation to keep it charged. The engine power has no effect on performance at all, so the engine can be sized for better efficiency. That's the promise. Today we have only the promise, and not much of the goods.
Throttling an internal combustion engine, especially a gas engine, does truly awful things to engine efficiency. (Throttling a gas engine has the effect of reducing the charge and of reducing the compression ratio simultaneously.) In town you would be doing very well to get 10% efficiency (comparing EV energy consumption to energy value of gasoline used by an equivalent unconverted vehicle); at least 9 out of every 10 gallons you burn go to waste. Hybrids *should* gain most by using power generated at higher engine efficiency to power the car when moving at low speeds.
Unfortunately, the first generation hybrids barely show any advantage in that respect. Toyota's system can double the typical efficiency under favorable conditions, raising fuel efficiency from awful to poor. The Civic hybrid is especially challenged, although it gains a little from downsizing the engine and using electric power to make up the difference. It just isn't enough to pay its way. As the controller power capabilities increase and the battery/motor can be scaled up we should see the real magic, in the manner of the Dualnote. For now, I understand the disappointment.
Mike
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I've got an 07 EX-L sedan-- all options except the Nav system. Pretty damn nice car for the money-- comfortable, powerful, lots of bells and whistles, nice handling, Didn't see enough "upside" to blow an extra $8-10K for the Acura.
Gripes? Just so-so gas mileage....and no ipod connector ;-)
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:58:35 -0400, Felony Bob wrote:

Thanks for the input.
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:22:24 -0500, Dan C

LX4 is probably the best deal.
I'm on my second EX4 in a row, gotta have the sunroof and alloy wheels, doncha know!
I may go leather next time - or the Acura TSX.
They've been offering SE deals with the V6 and no sunroof.
You really can't go wrong, all loaded up it's still 8k less than the Acura TL and still uses regular gas!
I got the silver, but I keep thinking how nice the blue ones are.

In some trendier neighborhoods you are of course required to own a hybrid, and if that's your situation, there's nothing wrong with the Civic!
J.
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Speaking as someone who has a Civic Hybird, I LOVE THIS CAR, it gets better mileage, granted, it costs a bit more, not really much compared to the EX auto which it is closest to.
You have to drive it to understand the true value, this car is smooth, I don't mean Lincoln dead ride, it doesn't jerk and lurch through the throttle process, no shifting, just smooth acceleration and deaccelration, no jerking about as traffic speeds up & slows down....then there is the tourque, when you need it, instant I do no have to wind up the engine to get it and there is lots of it, v-6 amounts the car is quite zippy if that is what you want.
The gas mileage is very good, I drove a standard Civic for a couple of weeks while my Accord was in the shop and got 25 mpg with the way I drive, I am on my 2nd tank of gas (I have used 14 gals in just over a month) and am currently at 46, I am mostly city driving. But, here is the real reason, the TRENDY neighborhood I live in, planet earth, appriceates the small break.

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Well, actually, I never thought to try the Honda hybrids looking for an improved overall experience.

Just 25mpg in a standard Civic? Must be very nasty city driving, or you're playing boy racer between red lights, but the city scenario is where the hybrids make somewhat more sense - though probably the Prius is better that way, it stays all-electric longer, doesn't it?
Hey, my neighborhood just had Barack Obama drop by long enough to have his picture taken with him standing in front of a biodiesel pump. Hmm, wonder if that's online:
article no pic http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID )503
Well, it *mentions* the gas station!
J.
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I have a friend with a Prius, it is a nice car....It does start in electric, however when she drives it, well, it doesn't :[) she only gets about 35mpg but she has fun. The Civic goes into an electric state while underway, 15-40ish with a light load you will see the meter go up to 100mpg & the assist indicator come on, the gas engine drops to an idle....overall, based on greenhybrid.com, the Prius gets about 47 mpg & Civic 46 so....name your poison. Yes, this area has a lot of stop & go, under 30, no left turn lanes, hills & LOTS of construction....it frequently takes me 30 minutes to drive 6 miles home & there is no freeway between work & home. Some of my considerations for the Civic were: 1. The dealer gave me $1,000 off list & gave me mud flaps & a couple of other dealer installed "extras" as well as $1,500 more for my 96 Accord than book. 2. The Civic does not look different than any other, not cool if your ego wants everyone to notice you but a good thing for jerks who want to run you off the road for taking up "their" road with an electric (therefore slow & gutless logic) car or boy racers. 3. There are 3 Toyota dealers in my area, they all wanted $29,000 for the $24,000 Prius, but with Toyota's special offer that is on right now, they would have let me have it (hmm, interesting pun) for $27,000.
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Oh yeah, there was one other factor, I wanted a Dark Blue car but not a grey interior, the Hybrid comes in a dark blue (metalic pearl) with a dark blue & Tan interior, that is the only way you can get this combo.
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