Re: TOTAL Loss of Oil: Car is OK...for now, anyway

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Hi: 4 a.m. in the morning and I'm finally out of the garage and back at the computer. Having to clean up massive amounts of oil is the least of my worries, as long as the car OK. You guys were of course
right - it was nothing but that blasted Fram seal stuck there from the old filter. The funny thing was I had read about this common issue and even looked for it, but due to weak flashlight batteries and loads of black crud, the seal just blended right in and I didn't see it.
Linuxiac, your post was highly appreciated. I really needed some support just after this thing happened, and you provided it at the right moment. And of course, thanks to everyone else for all of your expert responses. Jim, I just read about the problematic issues with Fram oil filters the other day, so that was ironically one of the main reasons I did the oil tonight (at only 2,000 miles since the last change)....to put on a different filter. I tried to find Mobil-1 but couldn't get them locally, so I settled for a Bosch. Believe me, I won't use Fram again. MIchael, the noise worries me too. I already feel that the engine sounds a bit "different" idling in the driveway tonight, but as you say, only time will tell for certain so I'll have to keep my fingers crossed for now. Thanks to your post, I will know some things to check in case of future problems. Greg, the noise did not happen again once sufficient oil was added, but the sound was REAL BAD while it was actually occurring. Sort of like a demolition crew was at work under the valve cover.
I hope this is OK, but I also added about 16 ounces of Lucas synthtetic oil stabilizer. I've never tried this before, but am doing so on the advice of a friend. Also, I did a bit of light sanding on the rotors (swirling motion as per Mr. Haynes) with 2000 grit paper, along with a spray of brake cleaner on the rotors and calipers. Never done that before either. As long as these two things did not do any harm, and also assuming the engine is still running smoothly afer a couple of weeks, then I'll finally be able to put this issue to bed. And speaking of bed, I think that's where I'll head right now....4:30 a.m. is way out of line for a decent bedtime. Thanks again for all of the great responses, and I'll post with the final verdict on the engine once I know more. - Paul
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Paul S wrote:

Talk about my heart in my throat... Wife took her Civic Del Sol with 80,000 miles to a Jiffy Lube, when I have asked her to let me change the oil, ALWAYS!
The illegal immigrant jerks pushed her to let them pour a can of diesel sold as "Engine Cleaner/Flush" for 'only' $9.99 into the baby.
On the way home, the oil light came on, and the valves went noisey. She was driving for two blocks, at idle speed, like this.
She shut down in the driveway, immediately. I estimate it ran only about 20 seconds to 30 seconds, with red light on.
I drained the oil, opened the valve cover, cleaned out what I could of the weird brown goo, put on a new oil filter, poured in new oil, and ran it for ten minutes, then did all once again.
Sold the car at 108,000 miles, running perfectly fine, with never any bad noises, and never to return to any fast lube stores. We can recycle our drained petro products at any corner auto parts store, and there are four within a few blocks of home!
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER put ANY additives, flushes, or things other than proper oil ( I do prefer true synthetics like Amsoil!) into any mechanical device, such as your auto's engine!
Think of it this way, the factory engineers represent hundreds or thousands of man years of tested and proven facts. They put out bulletins, manuals, maintenance schedules based upon decades of experience.
Some well intentioned 'friend' advises the addition of some additive, and who will buy the new engine or device, and pay the labor? The 'friend'? Ha! At least Amsoil gives a written warranty!
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Linuxiac wrote:

amsoil is no more a "true" synthetic than castrol or any of the other "synthetics" people complain about. according to their msds info: http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/web_msds.display?imsdsnr 1522 amsoil just a decane base - in other words refined hydrocracked dino. so is mobil 1. they're still good quality, but not as popular myth would have you believe due to formulation changes. mobil 1 is only a fraction pao these days. only 5% in this formulation: http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/web_msds.display?imsdsnr 4095 afaict, the only "true" synthetics sold over the counter are red line and motul.
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Hi: Regarding the story about your wife's experience, your point is well taken. I really don't want anymore unexpected mishaps, so I'll avoid the Lucas or any other oil additives from now on. Been using 5W-20 synthetic Mobil-1 lately, and I'll just keep this pure in the future. Thanks again. - Paul

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I hate FRAM filters, but be warned, I have had the gasket come off of other brands also. Don't worry about the flashlight. Just look at the filter you removed and make sure the old gasket is there.
As for the rotor comment. Brake cleaner is not a good choice to clean rotors. It still leaves residue. I have always washed them down with dish washing detergent. This is an excellent grease/oil cutter. When you get done, if you see a GOOD coat of rust forming on them, you know you done good! Even new rotors out of the box need to be washed like this.
Hope your engine is okay. I can't see where the few minutes you ran it would cause a lot of damage. Especially since you didn't even have it under load.
I would deffinatly change the oil at 3k or sooner on your next go-around in case there is any metal shavings in there (I really doubt it, but why not be safe).
G-Man
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Thanks, G-Man. I'm gonna change my oil very frequently now that I finally know how. In fact, I may do so once more in the next day or two just to make absolutely certain it's free of any shavings. - Paul
wrote:

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There isnt anything wqrong with Lucas additives. Racers trust them in their mega expensive motors, it will be fine in yours. It works great in older engines, as does the Tranny additive. 16oz of tranny additive got me an extra 40K out of my F150, though I wouldnt try it in a HOnda tranny, it is guaranteed.
Lucas isn't ablte to sponsor an NFL Stadium because he sells junk. They have been selling in the US forever.
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I hear what you're saying, I'm just too scared to be experimental at the moment. Staring at 4 litres of fresh oil all over your garage floor is sort of like "Apocalypse Now"....it's enough to give one a bad case of post-traumatic stress syndrome. On an affirmative note, though, I have tried the Lucas fuel injection additive (upper cylinder cleaner) in my '92 accord and LOVED it. What a difference, both in terms of power and stability. - Paul S.
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I've had great results with Lucas auto tranny additive in a 20 year old Volvo but haven't tried any oil additives.
Lucas has a spotty reputation in hardware, though. The tale that Brits drink warm beer because they have Lucas refrigerators is still good for a chuckle. Having had a British Leyland car with Lucas electrics I can relate!
Mike
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On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:59:03 -0700, "Michael Pardee"

Interesting. My '92 accord has that "zone" thing with the transmission, where it just seems to get stuck and delay shifting. So I thought about using the lucas transmission fix but am still learning more at this point. Do you happen to know anything about the "Auto RX" tranny fix? Trying to determine if it's really helpful or just a bunch of hype. If I knew for sure it was safe I might try it. Thanks. - Paul.
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Paul S wrote:

The only auto tranny additive that I can state positive results about is LubeGuard which you won't find in your typical autoparts store. It is pricey and can be found at transmission parts suppliers though.
It is NOT a super lubricant but a stabilizer that effectively raises the boiling point of standard dino tranny fluids. It is also a cleaner but has NO value regarding stoppage of leaks.
A friend (who I went to high school with) that operated a tranny repair shop for thirty five years turn me on to this stuff back in the late 1980's.
JT
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Thank you....I will research this additive. The shift delay is getting worse and worse all the time, and is just plain frustrating. But a shot tranny from a bad additive would be mucho more frustrating.- Paul
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wrote:

I believe they are different companies. Lucas Oil is an INdiana company, not european. I wouldnt trust a fluid dealer for hardware. Like asking the plumber to fix your computer.
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Paul,
If it were me, after the next oil change after a 3K+ run, I'd send a sample to:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com
They will tell you how the engine is doing. I use their service. I only change my oil avery 7,500 miles, but I use Full Synthetic rated for that mileage.
They will send you a free kit to collect and mail the sample.
G-Man
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wrote:

Also, check the oil level at each fill-up for a while. If it doesn't burn any then it is OK, though I have to think you took a few thousand miles off its life with this adventure.
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On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:17:01 -0500, Gordon McGrew

That is my fear as well....some sort of subtle damage that may not be overtly or immediately apparent, but which nevertheless could come back to haunt later on. I did drive the car (an '04 Accord LX) up to the local DIY carwash tonight, and it really seemed fine as long as it was moving. While idling in the driveway, though, my wife and I noticed what sounded like a slight, intermittent metallic "squeal", although it could just be my paranoid imagination. Later on (after the car had warmed up) I didn't hear it anymore. Personally, I really don't feel the quality of this '04 is relatively as good as it was even in my '92 accord, even though the '04 is more comfortable. The newer Hondas just seem cheaper and cheaper every year, and sometimes I think of jumping ship and trying a Toyota next time around. But since I'm only at 30,000 miles right now, I hopefully won't have to worry about that any time soon. - Paul S.
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Paul S wrote:

If you were hearing a squeal, you may very well have gotten oil on the belt. It might be worthwhile to replace it if it continues.
As for the quality, my opinion is the opposite. I always stayed away from Hondas and Toyotas in the past, because while they had a good reputation, they felt very cheap to me. Very lightweight, and many were just cheap looking.
The new ones seem to have maintained exceptional quality in the engine components, while also beefing up the car to feel more sound. Note: The old ones may have been sound, but they didn't look or feel it to me, and that matters.
Also, the older ones seemed to rust pretty quickly in my northern climate (Buffalo, NY) from the salt, etc. I have seen very few Hondas or Toyotas from 2000+ that were showing any appreciable rust, unless they had been in a crash.
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Hi - That's the second time someone has advised me to think about changing the belts post my oil mishap. I'll at least have my mechanic check the existing ones, and I'll certainly replace if necessary. Regarding the quality issue, I have been in the western Toronto area for three years with both my '92 and '04 accords, and have had a thorough anti-rust oil spray on both vehicles every fall...so far with no problems. Of course, you are only ninety minutes south of here but you guys get a LOT more snow with that menacing lake just to the north. Anyway, I'm glad to hear you affirm the quality of the newer cars - that makes me feel a bit better about my '04. - Paul

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wrote:

Thanks, G-Man.....I will definitely try that service. Very glad to konw about it. I'm running full synthetic now in my '04, though of course it may not be "full" at all (Mobil-1 5W-20). I'm thinking of trying Mobil's Extended Performance synthetic so I can go longer between changes, like maybe 5,000 miles instead of 3,000.
Just curious....what brand and type of oil are you using? Also, what brand of oil filter? I'd love to go 7,500 between oil changes if I could. Just ordered an Amsoil oil filter today....at $16 bucks apiece, this one will break the bank in short order if I have to keep changing every 3,000 miles. - Paul.
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I am using AMSOIL XL7500 Oil, and Honda Filters. The filters are about $4-$6.
G-Man

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