Rob Roy Brown and a bit more robbery

Personally I think they ought to add in the cost of making the thing, that would put the stupid hybrids in their proper bands!

Hmm, D3s and modern Range Rovers? Even current range rovers and discoveries lose their values very quickly compared to Defenders because people are more picky over the trim, old ones still exist of course but I'll bet a much larger proportion of discos and rangies are scrapped than Defenders. I'd be unsurprised to find that they're scrapped at a similar rate as the japanese 4x4s.

[..]

Someone's actually written this all up scientifically somewhere - can't remember where, p'raps my Googlegimp we do the honours again ;-)

As an aside, the Green Party locally are well sussed and have been using Grumble as an example of good practice. Last year one of the Greenies corrected the LibDem wanker who was desperately trying to say that motors like Grumble were responsible for killing the planet. I have to say, especially given their recent stance, along with FOTE about the folly of backdating of vehicle tax, that I'm more inclined to try and work 'with' those who hold a true green agenda - rather than those who just think there's a quick vote in it.

Absolutely. My father is greener than a green thing and has the international awards to prove it. But... he still drives a Series II and is well aware and supportive of the logic behind Grumble et al.

Your wish is my command;

That's the report about how much energy and pollution is caused by the manufacture, running and scrapping of vehicles, which should be compulsory reading for hybrid vehicle owners. It's even received the blessing of Greenpeace who said it's right but that they reckon hybrids will get better so are still the way forward.... This despite the Prius taking 50% more energy and pollutants to build than a Humvee, although that does depend on how readily you swallow the predicted vehicle miles until scrapping, 100,000 miles for a prius and

300,000 miles for a humvee. Not sure how many hummers would still be on the roads after 300,000 miles. The 100,000 miles for the prius is the manufacturer's predicted lifespan and is quite pathetic. Even my old Lotus has done more than that. Even the tyres recommended for the prius are low-mileage ones and last one third of the miles of those on most other mass-market cars.

The major problem with the Prius isn't the mileage it's the battery life.

They only give a six (or seven) year warranty, and you can bet your life it'll last about five minutes beyond that before going to the dogs, and it costs about £5,000 for a new battery pack, which is more than a new engine for a Landy.

I've no ideas how they get rid of the dead battery but I'm prepared to bet it makes a bloody great big hole in the ozone layer or an equally big polluted bit in some landfill...

My Defender is over twelve years old now and still going reasonably well. It's carbon footprint is much smaller than a Eurobox that'll last seven or eight years before disintegration and yet I'm the one who gets lambasted by the green meanies if I venture into a city...

On the other hand my road tax is still only £200, so someone out there is awake...

Ah, that's the one (thanks, BTW).

Wonder why a Government that seems so influenced by evidence, appear not to like, erm, evidence?

ISTR them offering various warranties for the battery, whether that includes actual degredation of the cells or actual cell faults I don't know but I doubt it'll cover cell degredation. I think that the

100,000 mile life was somewhere around when they were expecting the cells to expire.

Indeedy, but the greenies are mostly fashion followers, switching from

4x4s to patio heaters depending on the headlines..

Ah, but it has to be the *right* evidence...

Are they using lithium yet ?

Steve

No idea.

Whatever they're using it'll be a nightmare to get rid of, big batteries are always bad news...

Last time I could be bothered to look it was Nickel Metal Hydride, which is the same technology Aldi are selling in their cheap rechargables...

I also know that at least two US companies are selling advanced battery technology for them, but you won't be allowed to fit them in the EC because they aren't approved...

In article , Ian Rawlings writes

I wonder: high pressures improve economy, but beyond a certain point greatly increase tyre wear (IIRC, it's skid not grip at a microscopic level).

Are they doing tricky things of that sort to hide the otherwise poorer MPG figures?

Regards,

Simonm.

In article , SpamTrapSeeSig writes

To answer my own question:

"Other components on the Prius, such as tires, are less distance-mileage friendly than nonhybrids of the same size and weight. For example, surveys of Prius owners by us and other research companies show barely

16,000 miles average life for original-equipment tires compared to 43,000 for Toyota Corolla. This high-tech tire uses a compound and design that reduces rolling resistance and thus improves fuel economy. But the typical replacement tire for a Prius will not likely be the OEM specialty variety, cutting both fuel economy and distance-per-battery charge of the Prius."

Regards,

Simonm.

Not sure about that.

I find that the preferred vehicle as second car for a number of leisure activities that involve carrying reasonably large amounts of stuff about is an old Range Rover.

Go to any major re-enactment and you'll see dozens and dozens of them about, all around ten years or so old, all a bit rusty around the rear hatch and all being lovingly kept on the road because the owners have half a tonne of gear to get over a wet field six or eight times a year...

Same with the horse crowd and the rare breeds lot.

These activities don't even impinge on most people's lives except as some form of spectator activity and the cars stay on the drive around the back of the house most of the time, but they're there...

They want Range Rovers and Discoveries because their wives mutter about comfort and 'ratty draughty old Land Rovers' and they want to take the family with them when they go away for the weekend, otherwise they don't get to go, but while something old with 'Land Rover' on the bonnet is cool, something old with 'Mitsubishi' on the bonnet means 'big unfashionable old car nobody likes'.

I don't doubt that there are plenty about, but I do doubt that the survival rate is anything like as high as it is for the Defenders, which tend to get kept going well beyond their sensible lifespan by large numbers of nerds like us ;-) Resale value and depreciation of the more posh vehicles seems to be much worse than the Defenders,

90/100 and series trucks so I'd have thought they hit the crushers more readily (based on second-hand prices).

Plus of course there's the dratted electrics with the Range Rovers..

.. and the suspension....

.. and the..

Being a re-enactor I mix with a lot of the 'old RR as a second car' brigade.

It's always the rear hatch rusting that screws them up, all the rest, the mechanical stuff, the electrics, they can do themselves (there are a remarkable number of nerds and academics doing re-enactment) but they don't have the skills to do the bodywork and painting stuff .

I manage to live with that, just pull bits off that don't work. :-)

Nowt wrong wi't' suspension

Martin

ahh yes, the engineer's search for perfection.