Genuine spark leads?

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I'm trying to diagnose misfiring at low revs on a 1980s Mazda.  Things start
sounding rough below about 1200rpm.  I noticed in the 'Focus misfiring'
thread MrCheerful suggested replacing Bosch spark leads with original Ford
ones.  Does it really make such a difference?  Mine is an old-school
ignition system: capacitor, ignition coil, distributor cap, rotor arm, spark
leads, plugs.  I've replaced the lot (except the capacitor which I measured
OK): each stage of replacement did seem to improve things.  The carb has
also been cleaned and adjusted.

The leads I have on there are new-old-stock random-brand from eBay.  When I
gently wiggle them on the distributor with the engine idling I get a shock
through the boot.  Is this bad, or to be expected if I wiggle them?  I don't
feel a shock normally when gently touching them.  Replacing the 20-year-old
leads definitely made a difference, but I'm wondering if these new ones are
somehow leaky.  Silicone and rubber looks new.  The boot on the ignition
coil has slightly split: I need to do something about this, but the lead is
firmly plugged into the coil so should be electrically OK.  HT leakage
faults are just so annoying to track down.

I can buy Bosch or another random brand from the autofactors, but a Mazda
parts database quotes EUR134 for the genuine article, assuming Mazda has any
stock at all (they often don't for this age).

Any other ideas?  I pulled the plugs out after a few hundred miles and they
look as I'd expect (slight pink dusting).  I've poked a hose around
listening for vacuum leaks and can't hear anything obvious.

Cheers,
Theo

Re: Genuine spark leads?



the genuine leads are needed on later fords with very high voltage ht and
wide plug gaps plus lean running.  older systems are much less fussy.  it
would be normal to get a shock while groping around any ignition system
while it is running.  it is not a good thing to do as it may lead to death
if you are unlucky.

have you checked the valve clearances?
vacuum leaks are easiest to check for using spray carb cleaner.
if the misfire is regular then test by shorting out each cylinder in turn
and note which gives the least change to engine note, then research that
cylinder.  I would do this by exposing one end of the ht leads and use an
insulated metal probe with a lead to earth, I converted an old screwdriver
by attaching a lead with a crocodile clip.



Re: Genuine spark leads?


Ah, good to know.  I survived :)


No, how likely is that to be a problem?  I'm not a great fan of things where
gaskets are involved, as once I've got them off I can't be 100% sure of
getting them back on again and sealed, if I can buy the rocker gasket at
all.  (that is the right name?  Mazda EPC calls it 'Gasket, Head Cover', and
someone else calls it a 'valve cover gasket').  Though there's one on ebay
for 7 quid so maybe worth a punt.  I seem to be buying half of ebay at the
moment!


I'll try that.


That's a neat trick.  Think that will be my first point of checking.

BTW, according to Mr Haynes the engine note is supposed to change when I
pull out the engine side of the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) valve
and stick my finger over the valve end.  Well, I can feel a vacuum and the
ball bearing rattles, but no engine note change.  Vacuum leak, dodgy valve,
or everything normal?  A new valve is $1 but costs $20 post and takes 2
weeks to come from the US: nobody in this country seems to even know what a
PCV valve is :(

Theo

Re: Genuine spark leads?



Tight valve clearances can ruin the tickover without impacting performance
very much.  Valves tend to recess into the head and close the gap nowadays
due to the changes in fuel composition.

the engine should be pulling some of its air through the pcv (which is a
service item on most cars) therefore blocking it should change the engine
speed/note.

What CO reading do you have at normal hot idle?



Re: Genuine spark leads?


FWIW it was running fine until the fuel filler rusted through and started
putting water and rust in the tank.  Evidently the filter didn't catch all
of that as I found bits of rust in the float chamber.  Had the filler pipe
changed, the fuel lines blasted through, a new filter and cleaned the carb.
But would water in the fuel mess with the valve settings?  They strained the
fuel but there might be some water left: half a tank of possibly-damp fuel
sat around for about 6 months and then I filled it up with fresh the other
week.  It's now about half full again, so there's potentially a mix of 50%
damp stale fuel in there.  Likely to be a problem?  Shall I just drive it
around until it's empty to flush it out the system?


I rang up Unipart and Eurocarparts and they'd never even heard of a PCV, and
ebay UK has a grand total of 9 for all cars in existence... are they called
something else over here?


Dunno... I have a cheapo CO meter (Gunson's) but it's wildly inaccurate so
I'm not sure I trust it for anything other than comparative measurements.
Last time I measured the CO (before the carb rebuild) it was reading from
0.9% up to 1.2% CO even though I set the mixture as rich as possible (big
black soot patches on the grass).  Optimal is supposed to be 2% CO.

Another stupid question: I wasn't paying attention when I took the rotor arm
off.  There are only two mounting screws, so it's possible I put the new one
on out by 180 degrees.  Would a 180 degree mismatch be a problem?  On a 4
cylinder car, at any one time two cylinders are doing the same thing, right?
Or does rotating it mean that cylinders 1 and 4 fire when 2 and 3 should and
vice versa?  If I had it rotated would that give poor idle or just make it
fail to work at all?

Thanks for the advice...
Theo

Re: Genuine spark leads?



you need to use up all the fuel and start with fresh.

PCV also known as CVV, do you not have  a mazda dealer to go to?

if the rotor was 180 out then it would not run at all.



Re: Genuine spark leads?


Ta.  It looks like taking the plugs out and putting them back in again has
helped a bit (dodgy contact somewhere?).

Mazda have no stock of the PCV valve in the UK, so they have to backorder it
from elsewhere (possibly Japan).  Takes 2-3 weeks minimum, could take months
if it ends up on a ship.  However poking around RockAuto (the US parts
place) gives a slightly more sensible shipping quote (15 quid post for 3 days)
and I can get some exhaust bits too, so it's not such a bad deal.

Will run until the tank is empty and try again.

Cheers,
Theo

Re: Genuine spark leads?



if the manifold connector (or pipe) for the pcv valve is partially blocked
then you might still get vacuum at the pcv, but not enough actual air flow
through it.



Re: Genuine spark leads?


With the sort of voltages involved its to be expected;!.. I'd use either
a further bit of good insulation like polythene sheet wrapped around it
or use a pair of pliers connected to the vehicle earth!..


I'd rather expect it would have done, 20 years is a bloody long time for
HT leads to maintain their composure;)..



Well have a look at it in the dark, any really serious leakage will
usually show up under those conditions.


What happens if you pull the leads off each plug when the engine is
running?. Usually an unchanged or little changed engine note will shown
up which if any of the pots are duff..

--
Tony Sayer



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