Ebay Shenanigans

If it is cheap enough, change the fuel filter after the first 1k miles, and the Shogun should run happily on about 30-40% chip fat and shouldn't smell of chipshop too much on that percentage.

Sod that - I do 750 miles a week just to and fro work.

Apart from the increased risk of getting pulled in by the inspectorate and having the tank dipped when you spend that much time going up and down motorways (1), it'll be a right PITA having to mess about filtering that much chip fat assuming you're going for the total pikey option of used fat, and not much more fun filling it with fresh fat straight out the drum, either.

Definitely not worth considering when the alternative is something like this 406, anyway.

(1) And if you're doing it all by the book, the duty you have to pay on the oil / fat adds enough onto the cost of the 'fuel' to not make it worth your while, given the grief factor when burning off that much fuel over the course of an average week.

Clean fat, register for duty and keep the declaration form in the car.

Remember to keep "all" (honest officer) all the reciepts for the cooking all used. You submit monthly a form that says how much you have used, not how much you are going to use.

If the declaration form for that month is in the car when they dip, just submit for that month and keep the reciepts. Bugger all they can do about it. You don't have to submit for everymonth. Just every month you use oil (the synical would submit for every month they are stopped and checked).

And you only need to change the fuel filter after the first 1k miles, not every 1k miles. It tends to flush the crap out of the tank better than mineral diesel, so it gets clogged. After that it is just like normal.

...and still a PITA in terms of filling up etc. if you're doing the sort of miles I am, when you can just use something more designed for the job that does at least twice as much to the gallon anyway. ;-)

People tend to get slightly better MPG out of veg oil. And you can easily get hand pumps and large multi gallon drums from a cash and carry.

At cash and carry prices + Duty probably looking at about 10p a litre saving, but a cleaner engine, and cleaner emissions and quieter running.

And it doesn't kick as much crap out as proper biodiesel does.

Let's be generous... let's say the Shogun manages 25mpg (1).

Based on an average weekly commute mileage of 750 miles, that's 30 gallons, or 136.2 litres.

Multiply that by 87.9p, which is the cheapest I've seen diesel locally of late, and you're looking at an average spend of =A3119.71 a week.

Do the same equation again, except this time we're using a proportion of veg oil which brings your cost down by 10p per litre on average, and we're talking an average spend of =A3106.10.

Now... let's say the 406 averages 45mpg (2)

This equates to a consumption of 16.67 gallons or 75.68 litres, and which in turn will at 87.9p per litre equate to a spend of =A366.52.

A saving over a Shogun running on straight, conveniently available at all petrol stations, diesel, of =A353.19 a *week*, or =A3230.49 per calendar month...

Or a saving of =A339.58 a week (or =A3171.58 per calendar month), if running on legitimate veg oil / diesel mix.

And then there's my own personal mileage - I tend to do at least another 200 miles a week on top of any work mileage I've covered.

Forget the monetary side of it - what advantages does the Shogun offer the longer distance commuter over something like the 406?

None I can see at present given I don't work half way up a muddy mountain side, and I'd be getting to work in something slower, that doesn't handle and with an air of 'do ya like dags?' about it.

Don't get me wrong... if I worked locally (and by that, I mean within walking distance of here), I'd like something like the Shogun if all I needed from a car was the odd trip to the shops and very occasional trips further a field.

But alas, I don't work locally... and I don't particularly like 'dags'

- for one thing, the wife almost certainly wouldn't approve of any I'd be thinking of getting in the back of any car I own. ;-)

And finally, all the above is before we factor in PITA filling methods and the need to visit the cash and carry on a regular basis.

(1) I reckon given the amount of stop start I tend to do, it'll be nearer 20mpg given it's the heavier 5 door version, but anyway... (2) I'll find out over the rest of the week - I suspect it'll be nearer to 50mpg, but we shall see.

--=20 JackH

High pressure direct injection / common rail systems do not like running on unprocessed veg oil. You can get away with it on an old 1.9td with the Bosch mechanical pump, but I wouldn't try it on the HDi.

You can do all the glycerine removal and de-esterification, but that really is a pain in the arse. If you genuinely don't care about the risk of getting pulled, much better to use heating oil.

Nor would I... and nor would he I suspect.

He was suggesting do it with a 2.5TD Shogun, something I suspect is old school enough to handle running on muck like that.

Just get a tank fitted at the rear of your house. Stick a paraffin heater in your garage/house unused. Get the tank filled with KEROSENE heating oil or Jet-A, JP4, JP8 or any white coloured kerosene.

Dont confuse kero with parafin. Parafin is made from all the old crap mixrd together. Ie it has many different fractions from different temperature "cracks" in it. Works great in heaters but diesels dont like it much. Kero is a narrow temperature range crack so its a purer thing. In the US parafin and kero are called the same thing though...

It smells like diesel, it runs like diesel, its the same colour as diesel, it even froths up like diesel. It smells the same when burned too. Because Kero is slightly "thinner" grade than diesel it could possibly cause some additional wear in the injection pump. Trust me its not that much different but... So add 100 or 200 to 1 cheap synthetic two stroke oil if it worries you for peace of mind.

Its the same price @45p per litre as red diesel. Effectively its half price diesel fuel. I used to fit central heating in farms in a previous life and wondered why farmers all wanted a kero burning boiler rather than red diesel. My diesel transit ran on the stuff fine for years in the 70s.. Its effectively cheap white diesel.

Any issues running Kero with a cat?

I thought they dyed heating oil (a different colour to agri diesel obviously) not so they could dip for that too?

No obviously it would something of the older school/simpler mechanics. But apparently inline pumps are fine with oil, it is rotary pumps in some more modern engine that dislike it for being too thick when cold and neat. But twin tanks and heaters apperently is the way to go if that is the case.

Oh, and you can actually bulk buy ready filter waste oil that is apparently filtered well enough to be used as veggie oil fuel without the need for messy filtration.

Nope. It's the same stuff, but without some lube (and these days detergent) additives, so no extra NOxes or anything to screw the cat. Either mixing it with regular diesel or, as Burgerman says, with a small amount of 2-stroke and it's fine.

Its no different to diesel.

They dye deisel. To stop you using it on the road. They dont dye kero, jet fuel etc because technically its not diesel. But its near enough.

Hmm, might look into running a kero/diesel mix, see how it goes

I was following a 4x4 of some description the other day, and could smell paraffin fumes actually.

You dont need any diesel.

Just get a pint of each in a glass and compare them. You cannot tell them apart. Both run fine in a diesel and in my turbines... Parafin on the other hand smells much less and does not froth up the same.

Diesels will run on our paraffin as sold in DIY places at a push but its a horrid mix of waste stuff left over from making all the important fuels.... Intended for old fashioned lamps and heaters. And it smells different (and far less) to diesel/kero. . Kero as in the £2 a gallon stuff called Jet-A that I use in my turbines (or the stuff that rix petroleum used to deliver - same stuff as far as I can tell - to kero heating oil tanks called kerosene) smells and looks like diesel. But half the price of road going fuel and its white....