Brother-In-Law Puts Down Subaru by Comparing to Dodge Intrepid

There is your answer right there. If he thinks that 200 Lbs makes a big difference, kill him and stuff him in the trunk of yiur subaru to equalize the weight. :)

Steel and Steel. Non-steel bodies are still a rarity (Corvette, Delorian, parts of some Saturns...).

Here is the data you need:

Two years ago, I recounted story here about woman in Chrysler PT Cruiser that turned in front of my Forester causing head on collision. I walked away from it but she remained in hospital with back and chest pains. I had slight bruise from seat belt but went to hospital for checkup since I take blood thinners and have arthritic neck - no problems. Besides safety aspects, Chrysler products don't have longevity of Subaru's.

The guy bought a Chrysler product. That should be enough to nullify any argument that he has. There's a reason Chrysler spends more on marketing than any other car manufacturer around and it isn't about safety. Lastly, even if you bring in a physics expert from MIT, you will never win an argument with ignorant people because they don't know when they have lost.

-Kurt

Dan Jensen wrote:

A point to note. The weight of the car doesn't give a particularly good indication of how well it will protect it's occupants. It gives a much better idea of how well it will inflict damage on other vehicles though.

The whole point in collision injury prevention isn't "how much can I hit without denting my car", it's "how can I disperse the maximum amount of kinetic energy in as long a time frame as possible". A heavier car must get rid of more Ke for the same speed as a lighter car. Likewise, a car that doesn't crumple as well as another doesn't take as long to get rid of the energy. The shorter the timespan the energy is dispersed, the more traumatic the stop is on the passengers.

You need to start banging them against things to measure this properly.

Hi,

I've been told never to argue with a fool. They'll always win, because you have to stoop to their level, where they've had a lot more experience than you...

Arguing car safety in crashes is an inexact science at best. Pure guesswork at worst. For every crash you see where people walk away from such metallic destruction as to believe nobody could have survived, someone's probably seen what looked like a fender bender that produced a fatality. Constant testing is done at many levels, and the results have helped all cars become safer over time. So a 2500 lb car made today MAY be safer in a crash than a 3000 lb car made 10 years ago (and then again, it may not!)

Yes, a heavier car (all else being equal, which it seldom, if ever, is. Think of the trade-off with big SUVs that can "drive thru" a little car, but roll over more easily, etc.) is likely to fare better in a head to head situation with a lighter one, but there's more than the pure physics of kinetic energy and momentum involved here. Arguing that with your brother-in-law sounds like a waste of good air.

Rick

Not necessarily true. It depends on how much energy has to be dissipated over how long. SUVs 'drive through' smaller cars because of the difference in weight, and because they are higher (so they usually drive over them; hence dissipating the energy over a long period of time). However, try hitting a brick wall with an SUV and with a Subaru. I would bet a fair chunk of change that thew Suby driver will have a better chance of walking away than the SUV driver since the Suby is lighter (not as much energy to dissipate) and it will crush better (lengthing the time over which it dissipates the energy), and lighten up even further since the engine will usually let go and go under the car (shedding a few hundred more pounds while continuing to crumple). The SUV is heavier and because they are on frames, don't crumple up as well and transfer significant energy to the driver; more likely to injure or kill.

That's the philosophy in modern race cars (NASCAR excluded; they aren't modern). The bodies of race cars are 'deformable structures' and different points on the cars fail at different rates causing a large dissipation of energy that is not transferred to the driver. Hence, spectacular crashes, where the car flies apart usually results in the driver walking away, while a sudden impact that where the car remains basically intact frequently injurs or kills the driver.

Dan Jensen scribbled:

This would never happen. Because of the Subaru's superior handling you'd be able to avoid the collision.

I can sight a case to reinforce Rick's comments. Some yrs back I lost a family member to an accident. If you just heard what happened and took a stab at who survived and who died you would have gotten it all backwards.

This was a text book case, couldn't have minimized all the variables any further if you tried. Both cars, same make and model. All people were teens within a yr of two at most. The car my relative was riding in ran a stop sign (sign blocked by overgrowth), other car rammed them in the drivers side. Only one wearing a seat belt, furthest from the side impact, died instantly. Drive of same car lived for a while. Driver of other car, went completely through the windshield and survived.

You just never know. I do understand your concern and have your sister and her family's best interest at heart.

Mickey

unproven assumption. a friend was pushed (from behind, literally by a mack truck) into a head-on with an old, full-sized chevy (arguably heavier and stronger than a chrysler). the chevy was a write-off, but my friend (and his dog) walked away with a few bruises. his legacy wagon wasn't repairable, but then again, neither was the chevy.

[snip!]

safety ratings aren't based on bullshit, but on how much occupant injury is measured in actual government crash tests. this is supposed to be indicative of how badly you might get hurt in each vehicle under the same circumstances. it includes factors like poor seatbelt design (early honda accords), or loose components that can inflict secondary injuries (like the mustang glovebox lid that DECAPITATED the dummy in one test!). a "5" has to be better than a "3 and 4"; if you were betting your life, would you take 60% over 100% because it's "good enough"?

it's always amazing to me how differently the american and japanese carmakers react to crash test results. i remember once a honda accord, in the early '80s, that scored very, very badly on the safety tests. the following model year, the car looked identical, but moved from worst in its class to *best* in its class. how? they had changed almost everything to do with safety: different seatbelt retractors, collapsible steering wheel, padded dash, etc. i have never seen a detroit carmaker do anything like that - if anything, things like the ford pinto show quite the opposite attitude.

....... tom klein

Sorry to hear about your lost :( Thank you for sharing. After the negative post from another person, your post really helped.

Therein lies your problem. He sounds like an ignorant, stubborn fool, and there's not much you can do to convince them of the facts once they've made up their mind.

My ex girlfriend's family was much the same way. Her father was pretty open minded about cars, one of the few I've met who didn't have a rock solid brand allegiance. In fact, he praised the layout of the Subaru engine compartment, as well as the longevity of the vehicles that he'd seen. But her uncle was another story altogether. I'd go to a family function and (you're gonna laugh) he'd get to drinking and pretty soon he'd be giving my

*car* a dirty look. Yes, my car. He went a few rounds with me over it, and the facts went right over his head. Most notably that my Outback is bolted together in Indiana, while his GM horror is made in Mexico, which last I checked was still a foreign country. This was of course a response to his country of origin rant.

Anyway, I wish you luck but you can't win against ignorance.

-Matt

You cannot reason someone out of believing something that they were not reasoned into believing in the first place.

Carl

Hallraker wrote:

That's pretty good!

So true... I will need to keep reminding myself of that fact the next time he goes after me. It is nice to know that the facts really do support Subaru in this head to head comparison. Even though I have found facts to back me up, I have listened carefully to stories shared and decided it is better to let it go and not send those facts to him.