Dodge Intrepid (99) battery recommendations

If you mean a hydrometer (electrolyte) test, then you're right, but if you mean a load test, Greg, then of course you have the pos. and neg. jump nodes readily accessible just by opening the hood - and you may already know about that.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

I'd keep humming on the old battery. My 99 300M was purchased end of 1998 and still has original battery even in hot NC. I had a 94 LHS and that battery lasted a long time too and went elegantly with plenty of warning. Every other brand battery I've owned died sooner and suddenly.

Some auto parts stores have a battery load tester behind the counter that will tell you how far gone the battery is. Older batteries will not supply as high a CCA, and they get worse as they approach the end of life.

I always get the highest CCA battery that I can find for the cheapest price.

Just about all car batteries are made by a handful of battery manufacturers who hang whatever brand is needed on the battery then OEM it to whomever.

Here's a site you might be interested in:

Ted

The key to getting a good battery is to get one that is fresh. There is a time code on each battery. Get one that is only out of the factory for a month or two. Best to leave on the shelf one that has collected lots of dust.

Richard.

There's an interesting web site

At first itseems like a general information site ("consumer power resource") thatincludes links to different makes. Actually it's run by Johnson Controls, soit's safe to assume that all battery models listed are JCI makes. SearsDiehard Gold, Silver, and Weatherhandler all appear on that site. It alsomakes it easy to compare different private labels by looking at the specs.Nothing wrong with JCI batteries though.

The key to getting a good battery is to get an Optima.

Would do, if they listed one for my wife's '99 300m.

Gramps

Jim - Don't be shackled by the lack of a listing - this isn't rocket science. Get the Optima Model 34 (Optima P/N 8002-002). Should be able to buy for right at $100. (According to knowledgeable people on the 300M ezBoard, the dual terminal Optima will also work fine in the M, but you pay slightly more money for slightly less capacity. The 34 is the better bang for the buck - it has side terminals only - and that's what you need.)

There's only one precaution in installling them on the LH vehicles: The battery hold-down on the LH cars is wider than most, and the terminals on the Optima are closer together than on your typical battery. You should therefore bias the location of the battery slightly off-center so that the negative terminal is closer to the hold-down than is the positive terminal (to ensure that the positive terminal doesn't short to it - no problem if neg. terminal contacts it). The hold-down is very firm, so there's no concern for the battery shifting on you and shorting out against the hold-down.

If you want more detail on the above info., including photos of the installation, read my post on

(note that that post and the photos are about my '99 Concorde - Intrepid, 300M, & Concorde are identical in many areas, including the battery compartment. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

I'm taking some mild interest in this thread, as the battery in my '2000 300M must be nearing the end of it's life (it will be 5 years old this november).

I don't necessarily believe that the Optima line of batteries is the "best" from an energy density point of view (the spiral design does not make the best use of the available rectangular exterior envelope compared to conventional battery construction). It might very well be that shelf-life was the over-riding design criteria for this battery. Shelf life is probably _the_ most important issue for retailers.

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) and reserve capacity are probably the two most important numbers to look at when selecting a battery since other objective criteria, like MTBF, accelerated life tests (vibration and temperature extremes) are not readily available to compare across manufacturers. Unlike many other types of consumer products (digital cameras, car tires, many electronic product, etc) there are no third-party-operated web sites that track, organize, and tabulate the experience of consumers when it comes to car batteries, let alone take the batteries apart and make subjective comparisons between manufacturers (as has been done with oil filters for example).

This web site:

will give you the CCA number given engine size and # of cylinders as inputs. For example, a 3.5L V-6 (214 cubic inches) gives a computed CCA of 285.

It is generally the consensus that you should NOT sacrifice reserve capacity for the sake of having a large CCA. For example, if I had the choice between the following batteries:

A) 400 CCA and 120 minutes reserve capacity B) 800 CCA and 90 minutes reserve capacity

Then it seems that battery (A) will, in the long run, be a better choice because I'm not likely to ever need more than 400 CCA while on the other hand the extra 30 minutes of reserve capacity may actually be needed at some point. In other words, batteries can never convert un-needed CCA's into extra reserve minutes.

One thing must always be kept in mind. Once you choose a battery make and model, buy the "freshest" battery in store (which, it seems, will not necessarily be on the battery rack but instead in the back room).

I found the following web site to have useful battery information:

And particulary these pages:

This paragraph is interesting:

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7.6. Freshness

Lead-acid batteries are perishable and sulfate in storage due to their natural self discharge. Please see Section 16 for more information on sulfation.

Determining the "freshness" of a battery is sometimes difficult. Unless it has been periodically recharged or "dry charged", NEVER buy a wet Standard (Sb/Sb) or Low Maintenance (Sb/Ca) battery that is MORE than three months old or a wet Maintenance Free (Ca/Ca) battery that is MORE than six months old. Dry charged batteries are shipped without electrolyte, but usually have "sell by" dates of one to three years. Depending on the temperature, AGM and Gel Cell batteries that can be stored six to 18 months before the State-of-Charge drops below 80%. Please see Section 16. for more information on sulfation. Dealers will place their older batteries in storage racks so they will sell first and they do not have to maintain them. The fresher batteries can be found in the rear of the battery rack or in a storage room. For a wet battery, the date of formation is often stamped on the case or printed on a sticker. Always have a new battery tested, and recharged if necessary, before you leave the store. This can save you a lot of time and frustration if the new battery is sulfated or has a manufacturing defect.

--------------

Here is the complete section on battery date codes:

------------ The battery date codes for various manufacturers is perhaps the most useful information to have when you're actually at the parts counter about to buy a battery.

Some of the manufacturer's formation date coding techniques are as follows:

7.6.1. Delphi (ACDelco) and some Sears DieHard

Dates are stamped on the cover near one post. The first number is the year. The second character is the month A-M, skipping I. The last two characters indicate geographic areas. For example, 0BN3=2000 February.

[Source: Interstate Batteries]

7.6.2. Douglas

Douglas uses the letters of their name to indicate the year of manufacture and the digits 1-12 for the month. D=1994 O=1995 U=1996 G=1997 L=1998 A=1999 S=2000 For example, S02=2000 Feb.

7.6.3. East Penn, Exide (Champion), Johnson Controls Inc., Interstate, Mopar (Chrysler) and some Sears DieHard)

Usually on a sticker or hot-stamped on the side of the case. A=January, B=February, and the letter I is skipped. The number next to the letter is the year of shipment. For example, B0=Feb 2000.

[Source: Interstate Batteries]

7.6.4. Exide (some Sears non-Gold DieHards)

The fourth or fifth character is the month. The following numeric character is the year. A-M skipping I. For example, RO8B0B=February

2000. [Source: Interstate Batteries]

7.6.5. Optima

The first character is the year. The following three numeric characters are the days of the year. For example, 3123=3 May 2003.

7.6.6. Trojan

The date code on the negative post is stamped as the battery comes off of the finishing line, ready to ship out or go into stock. The code that is stamped is usually one month ahead. Therefore, a battery that comes out in March will carry an April date code. The code on the positive post is the manufacturing date that indicates when the battery was physically built but before the addition of any electrolyte. The letter is the month (A=Jan, B=Feb, C=March, etc.) and the number is the actual date. So "K26" means that the battery was ready for electrolyte filling and the first forming charge was on November 26th. Since the negative post shows A2 (January 2002), the manufacturing year has to be 2001.

7.6.7. Concorde

The activation date is on an orange sticker the shipping carton or email Concorde Customer Service with the serial number of the battery.

7.6.8. Rolls and Surrette

The four digit date code represents the day of the week (first digit), week of the year (middle two digits) and the year (last digit). For example, April 4, 2003 would have 4143 as a date code. The date code is stamped into the front edge of the cover of the battery.

Interesting info., MoMan!

Just curious: How does the Optima's specs. of 800 CCA/1000 MCA/110 minutes RC/50Ah stack up against your typical 34 battery? The size (physical volume) is smaller than your typical battery. I guess I could research that on my own, but figure you may have such info. right off the top of your head and could provide usefulcomments.

My main motivation in putting an Optima in my Concorde was the moderate difficulty in getting to it to replace or work on it - I figure it will still be in the car and working when it (the car) goes away for whatever reason (and I tend to keep cars *way* beyond what most people do). I also very much like the idea of no liquid electrolyte to spill, evaporate out, outgas (explode), corrode surrounding metal, etc.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

My 99 300M still has the original battery so you may have at least another year to go.

(note that that post and the photos are about my '99 Concorde -> Intrepid, 300M, & Concorde are identical in many areas, including the> battery compartment.>

Many thanks for your input and reference. Her car is now six years old, so I figure it's about due. As soon as I'm up and about a bit better, I'll make the swap.

Jim

In order to know exactly I'd have to have a list of dimensions, weights, CCA's and RC's for all of Optima's car batteries.

If you know the dimensions and weight of your Optima battery, then calculate the volume of your battery and use the formulas (below) to see if your battery is heavier or lighter than what is predicted. I can't see how all Spiral Wound AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries _wouldn't_ be lighter than regular rectangular batteries of the same external size.

FYI - Excide also seems to make a spiral-wound battery (Select Orbital):

Using the numbers from the specs for the Exide ORB78D-84, I get a predicted weight of 44 lbs, where according to it's specs it weighs 38 lbs.

I found some specs on "DayStarter" batteries (St. Paul, Minnesota) and their group-34 battery has 600 CCA and RC of 110 minutes.

The following was computed based on data from 19 batteries in a list of 12-volt passenger car and light commercial battery specifications (January 2004) from

Battery weight vs Battery volume:

Weight = 0.0716 x V + 2.9 (r = .86)

Where V is the volume (in cubic inches) of the battery calculated by multiplying the length by width by height. Volumes ranged from 432 to

734 cubic inches, and weights ranged from 34 to 56 lbs. So (as expected) battery volume and weight correlate pretty well.

CCA vs weight:

CCA = 8.54 x W + 212 (r = .807)

Where W is the battery weight (in lbs) and CCA is the Cold Cranking Amp rating at 0 degrees F. Interesting that it predicts 212 CCA at zero battery weight.

CCA vs volume:

CCA = .647 x V + 218 (r = .778)

Where V is battery volume (in cubic inches). Again it predicts a CCA of a little over 200 at zero battery volume.

Weight is slightly better than external volume at predicting a battery's CCA.

Regarding reserve capacity (RC):

RC vs weight:

RC = 2.88 x W - 23 (r = .885)

Where RC is reserve capacity (in minutes) and W is battery weight (lbs).

RC vs volume:

RC = .216 x V - 20 (r = .836)

Where V is battery volume (cubic inches).

Again weight is slightly better than external battery volume at predicting reserve capacity. Interesting that at zero weight and volume that it predicts about negative 20 for RC.

How does CCA correspond to RC?

RC = .317 x CCA - 83 (r = .968)

It's the strongest correlation.

So, what does all this mean?

1) Big batteries weigh more (tone down the wise-cracks) 2) Both weight and volume correspond with higher CCA's and higher RC. 3) CCA's correspond strongly with RC. 4) RC correlates better with both weight and volume than CCA does. 5) I'm thinking that Daystarter inflates their CCA by 200, and their RC by 20 minutes (judging by the zero intercept of these graphs).

Executive summary:

1) If you want a lot of reserve capacity, you probably have no choice but will get a lot of CCA with it. 2) Get the biggest, heaviest battery that will fit in your car. 3) The Reserve Capacity may be a better predictor of battery capacity than the CCA rating.

4) Unless the newer spiral-wound batteries have inherently higher energy densities, then their CCA and RC numbers are bogus and you are making a trade-off (lower CCA's and RC's) vs getting a battery that probably is better for off-roading and vibration tolerance but is no better (durability-wise) for passenger car use than a standard AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery.

...and my '98 Intrepid has its original battery. Just passed 100K last week. The factory battery seems to hold up pretty well as long as the climate isn't extremely hot or cold.

--Geoff

I'll run the same calculations on the Optima 34. From its spec sheet

, it's raw numbers are:length 10 in. width 6.875 in. height 7.813 in. (calculated volume 537.1 cu. in.) Capacity 50 Ah RC 110 minutes CCA 800 MCA 1000

I think you were mainly looking at parametric correlation, but the work you did can certainly be used to compare the Optima to the "regular" batteries.

Optima 34: 800 CCA, 110 minutes

Predicted for Optima by that formula: 41.4 lbs. Actual: 37.9 (As you point out, the spiral construction takes up more room for the amount of effective material)

Predicted for Optima: 536 amps Actual: 800 amps (That spiral construction must expose more surface area per volume for higher current density)

Predicted for Optima: 566 amps Actual: 800 amps

Predicted for Optima: 86.2 minutes Actual: 110 minutes (For some reason, the construction apparently gives higher energy density)

Predicted for Optima: 96.0 minutes Actual: 110 minutes

Predicted for Optima: 170.6 minutes Actual: 110 minutes

The Optima has higher CCA and RC for its weight and volume, and it apparently really stands out in CCA (more-so than RC). I guess that means it would excel in extreme cold.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')