Things they don't tell you about your AWD Subaru

Wow, you replaced a transmission because of torque bind? The clutch pack is located at the tail shaft of the transmission and fully accessible with the transmission in the car. The engine drive all the magic stuff to the tail shaft and the cultch pack sends the torque to the rear and sends the other part back forward to the front diff. Mind you, replacing the clutch pack requires measuring and shimming the assy, so the average person (and many shops) will not have the proper shims to do that part at home. Generally speaking, the clutch pack is a sealed unit and not serviceable short of replacing it. it has it's own oil in it. There are other things that happen to cause torque bind type problem, and working in a Subaru shop I see more subies die for engine problems than transmissions. And as for torque bind clutch pack issues Maybe 1 or 2 a year. Steve

Been lurking on half a dozen Subaru forums the last 10 years and this is the first time that I can recall anyone has posted a torque-bind problem with a manual transmission. Not that it makes you feel any better but what you experienced is a very rare failure. I know the clutch pack for the automatic transmission is located on the rear of the transmission but I think for the manual transmission it is located internally. Never had a manual Subaru so not sure about that.

I really hope you looked at tire radius before assuming the clutch pack was bad.

Yeah. Unless there was an unreported problem with those particular tranny models and they're all gonna fail. I've owned a string of AWD Subarus that I've driven to well over 150K miles each with no such problem and no need to replace the transmission. I haven't heard of or found reports of others running into that problem either. But then, I drive automatics.

all clutch packs are at the tail shaft, manual or auto's

Torque bind is quite rare if the tires are all kept reasonably close in diameter.

A bit of research before replacing the trans would probably have saved you some money.

Dave

C'mon spamTHIS, the car has nearly new tires, and I replaced _both_ front axles before swapping the tranny. Been there, done that. In fact, I had a hard time believing that the tranny could be at fault, but the (~90K miles on it) replacement transmission fixed the problem. For now.

I too have owned numerous AWD Soobies, some with serious mileage:

A '91 Legacy Turbo sedan that had 170K or so with no issues while I owned it. An '02 WRX. that I didn't really like (crummy mileage, sluggish turbo, incurable understeer ), and so sold it at about 25K. A '96 Legacy sedan (my wife's) with an AT. A bit over 160K with no serious issues. A '90 Legacy wagon with close to 300K when I sold it, but I replaced the tranny on it at about 230K for a different reason; it wouldn't stay in 4th gear. Should've kept that car, tho; it was a good'un. A fairly low mileage '95 Impreza Wagon that I bought with a bad AT (hydraulic pump failure), fixed and sold. My current DD, a '99 Forester with 115K. I love the car, and am driving it today, but seriously considering craigs-listing it before it, too has problems. And my wife's 140Kmile '02 Forry . . . But this is beside the point.

I have no particular issues with the AWD clutch wearing out, these things do happen. But when I go to the dealership looking for info and parts to repair it, and am told that it "Is not considered a serviceable part", and I will "have to replace the entire transmission." . . . Well then.

Blatantly planned obsolescence from where I sit; who is gonna spend $3,500+ to fix a $6,000 car? Not this boy in any event.

And maybe the problem is limited to certain model years production runs; I couldn't say, but I _have_ heard of several instances of the clutch pack in automatic transmissions failing, and at least one other instance of it failing in an MT car, specifically another older Forester.

Steve, you're the subaru shop guy? Have you actually purchased a replacement clutch pack from Subaru? I don't suppose you recall any details, year, model, and particularly, a part number? I don't really have a whole lot of confidence in the local dealership, but they are the only game in town. and none of the on-line stores had anything like that listed. I'd sure be happier if I knew I could get repair parts if/when the time comes.

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB Laboratory Manager Microelectronics Research University of Colorado (719) 262-3101

My 2003 OBS 5spd had torque bind at about 150k kms. Replaced clutch pack for something like $1600. All is well since, now at close to

I was told that driving it with torque bind could ruin the transmission, so I did not delay.

Steve, from discussions with other Soobie owners (and from personal experience with my wife's '97 Outback Sport (Imprezza)), it appears that replacing the automatic transmission (with a "factory reconditioned" unit) is a standard Subaru USA tactic. The service manager at the dealer said to try some independent transmission shops but couldn't recommend one by policy.

Dealer quote was $5300 on the 97. I already knew of a good shop, the quote was $2400 or less unless the case was "grenaded". The bill was $2100, new clutches and bands etc.

The local Soobie specialty shop, Smart Subaru, doesn't do auto transmissions, but they said that was about going rate when they farmed out AT jobs to other shops.

I went to several transmissions schools where we disassembled the 4 speed auto, 5 speed auto, and 2 manual's I think. Now mind you, going to this school doesn't make me qualified to repair a transmission. ;) I just saw how they were put together. How a shop addresses a transmission issue depends on the level of competence of the shop. If you have no one in the shop who can accurately diag and repair a transmission, you don't want to sell that service, so you sell transmissions ;). We rebuild most manual's and repair some auto's. this is done by the techs that have a lot more time on Subies than I. The class I went to had a tech from a Seattle shop that did auto's all the time. 3/4 of the problem with auto's is knowing how to diag them. This guy was awesome. the pieces were flying out of the transmission so fast it scared me. He does all transmissions problems at his shop and he knows what he is doing. I learned more from him. IE if a transmission had a certain shift problem, he would know that the clutch pack here has a bad seal and only repair that problem. I have no problem with someone going to a transmission shop- what is inside a subie transmission isn't classified. 2100 is a great price to fix any transmission. Steve

I've replaced one clutch pack, and it was on a manual transmission. (don't remember the specifics) the part is available. I think the real issue with the shop and not the Subaru

Found this on another Subaru forum this morning. Another owner has the same failure.

Hi, I am wondering just how difficult it would be to change my 2000 Subaru Outback Limited Wagon 2.5L from an AWD to a front wheel drive? I have a small shop (including lift) but I have never taken this manual 5 speed transmission out nor do I know much about this particular unit. All indications are that the VISCOUS coupler is shot. When I bought the car, I had need for the AWD on top of a mountain but have since moved to the flat lands and do not really need the AWD. My feeling is if I remove the drive line from the back of the transmission to the jackpot (Differnatial) or and perhaps take off the modual rear of the transmission and remove the guts (VISCOUS coupler) and replace the housing, affectively disconnecting the back wheels from the drive front wheels. Not sure just how this will work or what my approach should be and hoping someone there has gone before me in doing this kind of thing?

It really wouldn't buy you much, if anything.

Minimal weight removal, almost no increase in gas mileage, and the front drivetrain would wear out more quickly.

Dave

It indeed sucks the dealer lied to you, but that's what it amounts to.

Dave

Hi Dave!

Yea, kinda looks like that, doesn't it. Heuberger Motors in Colorado Springs. 'Nuff said.

I'm gonna chase this around some more, and will post my findings.

I owned an XR600 for years. Great bike; my buddy still has it, tho I don't think he's ridden it lately. Still have my XR200, but, alas it hasn't had much recent attention either. They tell me that scooters cry at night when they're not being ridden ;-)

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB Laboratory Manager Microelectronics Research University of Colorado (719) 262-3101

Hi, Steve;

Living in Boulder, I've purchased four new Sub-burros at Flatirons Subaru over 20 years (my wife has purchased one) and I've never been disappointed with their sales or service. Having said that, I switch to Super Rupair for service after the new-car warranties expire. I estimate Super Rupair has provided service for my cars over 500,000 miles of driving; I've never been dissastified and I believe their prices are reasonable. I also recommend Super Rupair's used cars to friends looking for a good used Subie.

I have no affiliation with Super Rupair; I'm simply a satisfied customer.

Ciao,

Ben

I have an 05 Forester auto with exactly these symptoms, and the main dealer has told me it needs a new rear diff. Only 21k miles too.

I even told them where the fault must be, but sadly they are clueless. I am tempted to chuck the Sale of Goods Act at them.

Sometimes other problems can simulate torque bind. I've read of people having 'frozen' u-joints that cause the jerking sensation.

I've had torque bind problems on my 95 Legacy 5MT. They initially told me they'd have to drop the transmission and replace the fluid coupling in the centre differential - 900$ part, about 4 hours labour. If I just left it, it would eventually melt and I'd still have an AWD vehicle, only with an open centre differential. I should also expect to replace the half-shafts more often due to added stress.

Luckily I also needed new tires, so I did that first and lo and behold the torque bind went away never to be seen again!!