After-market gauges

I just went through a similar exercise with the Ugly Truck, as I wanted to add a trans. temp gauge and an oil pressure gauge. I had an oil pressure gauge from my '62 Stude that I installed, it was Sunpro brand. I also bought a vacuum gauge to fill out the 3-gauge panel, also Sunpro. The only trans temp gauge I could find in a matching style was a VDO "series 1" unit (I was going for chrome bezels, black faces, white numbers/pointers - reason being I figured if I ever sold the truck I'd pull the gauges and keep them for another interesting car project.) The Sunpro gauges are adequate in that they seem to be reasonably accurate and responsive, but the backlighting is simply abysmal. The VDO gauge however has attractive and functional backlighting. I did buy the AutoMeter "bulb condoms" to get the backlighting green. I posted at more length about this in this thread:

unfortunately, I have not seen a reading yet on the trans. temp gauge as I installed the sender in a test port, and apparently that is far enough away from a fluid passage that sees actual fluid movement that it doesn't work well there, so I will either have to pull the trans pan and install a bung or else get a (expen$ive) aluminum pan that I can drill and tap. So I can't really comment on the *performance* of the VDO gauge, but it sure does look good at night.

AutoMeter makes some attractive gauges as well, but most of them seem to be in a more modern idiom than VDO's "series 1." They do have their "Traditional Chrome" line but those have orangey-red pointers rather than white (which would actually be a good match for my '55 Stude... but I digress.)

Personally based on my experiences I would avoid Sunpro because of the backlighting issues; VDO or AutoMeter ought to be safe buys, not sure about Stewart-Warner as they appear to have either changed hands or reorganized recently.

Unless you're going to be doing some serious off-roading or other high-vibration use I doubt you need liquid-filled or anything fancy like that.

If you feel like taking a chance, I know that Summit Racing has recently introduced their own "private label" line of gauges, but I have never tried any of them so I don't know who they're private labeled from. I imagine other similar retailers might have similar products (Jeg's, Speedway Motors, etc.)

I hope this post helped more than it muddied the waters :) About the only hard recommendation I could make would be to avoid Sunpro because of the abysmal backlighting that appears to not be easily fixable.

nate

Forgot to add - if anyone is reading this and is tempted to follow in my footsteps re: improving the backlighting on Sunpro gauges, please also read this thread:

nate

I like the look of VDO cockpit gauges and they seem to go with many newer cars. VDO makes several styles including one that has a definite retro 60's style, which may not be appropriate. Take a look at the various styles and see which one will look best with your car.

Maybe check it for combustion gases in the cooling system? Also check the radiator for proper flow. What kind of shape is the thermostat in? The bottle and cap are not likely suspects on the 4.0. So changing them won't have any effect other than making your wallet lighter.

Oh and there hasn't been an open system since about 1975. They are all a closed system with pressurized caps and overflow tanks.

Oh, now I get it. You are attempting to solve an overheating problem by replacing the gauges. Kinda like replacing the thermometer when a summer day feels too hot.

It would be less expensive and less time consuming to have someone trace down the cause of the problem than for you to randomly swap out parts.

Well, I did solve an oil pressure "problem" on the Ugly Truck by switching to an aftermarket mechanical gauge. I never did get the dash gauge working correctly (2 different gauges)

nate

True. But my point is to take a logical approach to eliminating potential causes of a problem.

Did I say that changing the gauges would fix the problem? Can you think of some other reason why I might want to add gauges?

For the overheating..

Check the rad fan's clutch by having someone shut down the engine hot while you watch the fan. If it keeps on spinning, it's clutch is dead.

You could flush out the rad, I get an amazing amount out of the XJ rads when flushed after a few years of service, same for the heater cores.

That cap on the bottle is also trouble. If it is leaking, the engine will run hot.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos:

I just put in a NAPA premium thermostat. (I'd like this car to stick around for a while, so I've been using NAPA premium for all the parts.)

I found out that there was no thermostat at all in the Jeep, and now that I have a new one in there it is still overheating.

It overheats in about 20--30 minutes after starting it in the morning. Boiling water/air bubbles seem to be comming up from the bottom of the overflow tank

I'll check out the fan clutch tonight. Also, I'll try flushing the system again, but with a stronger chemical.

You are right -- it didn't help. The previous bottle's cap was barely on. I thought that maybe the loose cap was allowing coolant to get out, eventually causing the boil-over. The threads were kind of loose so you could easily yank the old cap off, so I think it was worth replacing. The new bottle and cap is a lot tighter, but it still overheats.

Really? My mistake... Thanks for letting me know. I had read the Jeep switched the Cherokee to an "open" system in 1992 or so, and I thought most automotive cooling systems were low/no pressure.

Thanks for your help!

All systems are pressurized and have been since the 50's.

what is the actual temperature when you see the bubbles? If it's not at least 212F I suspect you have an internal engine issue that needs to be addressed; head gasket, cracked head, or some other similar problem allowing the combustion gases to directly enter the cooling system.

nate

Bad head gasket, or a cracked head/block. That is where the bubbles/overheating is coming from.

That implies someone else tried to fix it before selling it off. How old is the rad? Those wide short rads physically plug up easy.

That is a likely suspect, even the OEM one I got from the $tealership only lasted 5 years. Mud destroys the seals on them fast by the way...

Also, I'll try flushing

I recommend you remove the lower rad hose and give it a good flush. I usually get literally handfuls of flakes out of them. Also inspect the vanes on the rad. the engine 'will' overheat when the fins are down to about 60% left or 40% missing.

Too bad, that 'open system' cap is a notorious one for letting the pressure out causing overheating.

Be warned that some of the new ones are defective. The cap doesn't match the bottle threads or there is a ridge in the bottle's sealing surface so the cap doesn't seal. Watch for antifreeze stains or steam.

Wrong! Jeep used it up until 1992. It was an AMC design I believe.

That is a fully pressurized system using 'only' the 'overflow' bottle and it's cap to hold pressure. The Jeep rad does not have a rad cap on it.

It still operates under pressure like most modern systems.

This makes these a real bugger to get the air out of also. Sometimes I and others I have seen and read about need to have the nose of the Cherokee up in the air, like up on a bank to allow the air to all burp out, they really needed a bleeder on them, but AMC didn't include one.

Good Luck!

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos:

I think it's fixed now. It looks like the problem was a kinked hose below the recovery bottle. When I put in the new bottle & cap I twisted the hose coming out the bottom by about 90 degrees.It was hard to see the kink as it kind of spiraled up the hose, causing it to collapse and restricted the flow of coolant.

It's also really hard to tell how much water is in the system, so I think I was putting in too much or too little.

One other thing that might be contributing to the problem: This car has two fans - one mechanical (on a clutch) and another that's electric. It looks like the electric fan was replaced at some point and I think it's not turning on. I'll fix that next, but it looks like the main problem with it overheating quickly has been fixed.

Thanks to everyone for your help!

Jeff P.

The electric fan will only come on with the AC or if the engine gets 'really' hot, like way up in the red I believe.

The Cherokee with no AC doesn't have this electric fan.

The bottle should have a mark on the side about half way up showing the fluid level. One thing to watch for that will air lock it is the line running back from the front. If this gets above the level of coolant in the bottle, it will air lock so you barely get inside heat and the circulation to the bottle gets restricted so it runs 'hot', but not boiling over. Ours was like that. Lowered the line and got great heat finally in it.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos:

My point is that you should fix the problem by identifying the cause in a logical way and not by simply swapping out parts. I have no idea why you would want to add the gauges, especially since at least one duplicates information already available.

IME factory gauges on many vehicles are not so accurate and also may not be calibrated, so I didn't blink when I read the OP. I've found German cars to be far better in this respect than American ones in general - I think even my '02 GTI had a calibrated temp gauge rather than the usual "C....H" mess. don't even get me started about Ford's fake oil pressure gauges...

nate

I agree with Nate. I've been using cheap Sunpro mechanical oil gauges with great success for years (of course most of mine were probably made in Mexico or Malaysia before they moved manufacturing to China so they may be far better than the current crop). But the details like finish and back-lighting are far better on more expensive VDOs. I will say that the white-face Sunpros actually are much better back-lighted than the black-face/white letter versions, but neither is as nice as VDO.