shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all those gears.

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news:1178663696.155572.256540 @u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

Cool. But 160K isn't very much these days, and how do you know there's no damage? Can you tell what bearing noise sounds like?

Bad. This tears up the synchros. Go through the gears properly. If you don't like shifting, you should have bought an automatic.

Proper "downshifting" does not involve the brakes, and does not cause any sort of jerks or bumps as you let the clutch out.

But adding side-load on the tranny bearings, plus hammering the engine crank and connecting rod bearings.

Why did you buy a manual again?

Not good. This is called "lugging". Major long-term engine bearing damage. Why did you buy a manual in the first place?

It ought to, at least once in a while. If you putter around like an old man all the time, soft carbon deposits can accumulate, holding valves open, causing driveability problems and valve burning. And that's quite expensive.

Do you think Honda put those specifications in the manual for fun? Or just for something to fill up pages with?

Yep. You want 300K out of your tranny? Observe the manual's directives. And change the tranny oil every 30K miles, with Honda MTF.

Manual transmissions are for people who like shifting and exploring the interaction of man and machine. If you want the shifter to be as unobtrusive as possible, you should have got an automatic.

"Neal Hudson" wrote in news:2f80i.2025$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:

Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.

Tegger wrote in news:Xns992AD3C3DC4CDtegger@207.14.116.130:

Skipping gears does wear the synchros more.

Jim Yanik wrote in news:Xns992AEB839FA9jyanikkuanet@

Sure does. Even Honda said so in a recent issue of Honda Service News.

Earlier I meant to say that the number of gears has to do with power and acceleration, not tranny life.

Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th under slow acceleration situations.

Skipping gears when accelerating slowly and done smoothly can't be that harmful. Just about everyone I know who has a 5 or 6 speed skips gears on a routine basis.

If you pay attention to your car, it generally lets you know when you are doing something it doesn't like. If the shift quality while skipping gears is worse than when not skipping gears, stop skipping gears.

On the other hand, what's the point of buying a Type S is you're afraid to run up the RPM? I could purchase a device to defeat that 1st to 4th shift feature but it never interferes with the way I drive my 'Vette, if you get my drift. So long as the engine is well maintained (esp. clean oil) running it up to red line (once it's fully warmed up) is not going to hurt the engine one little bit. You will find the shift quality gets better as you let that engine breathe. Replace those crappy OEM tires and stand on it!

Or trade it in for a Prius. No worries about skipping gears.

ACAR wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

Have you considered that GM might have explicitly designed the transmission to survive that? Honda did not.

The Honda Service News issue I mentioned warns mechanics to check for skip-shifting if a car comes in with shifting problems.

I believe that the GM forced shift of which you speak is done only when the engine is below operating temperature, and is a trick to get it past emissions regulations under such conditions.

Whether or not the transmission is designed to handle it is kind of moot. IMHFO anyone who 'gets on' an engine and transmission before its oil is up to operating temperature deserves all he/she gets.

All these points from all responses are well taken...thanks.

Think I'm going to start drive my Type S more aggressively and more to the manual's speed specifications for when to shift. Love driving hard and fast...but also love having a car for a very long life. Where I live (northern Midwest region) lots of roads are in pretty crappy condition; pot holes, cracks, bad repairs...the works. So fast driving has the backlash of tires, shocks and alignment abuse. Why did I buy a manual? Really like the experience of shifting. As I'm sure you know, keeps you more involved in the ride. Besides...for me, automatics are boring.

About the awareness of knowing what one's engine doesn't like? Have always liked to think I had a good sense of that. In my RSX, I rarely ever (may just once or twice) have experienced any even slight lugging when letting clutch out in lower gears as I shift to higher ones. Have never noticed any lack of "shift quality" when gear skipping either. Overwhelming majority of them are smooth and precise with no excess revs higher or lower as clutch lets out completely...which is why I've never thought I've been doing damage to synchros.

But like it's been pointed out, Honda knows best. Who am I to argue? Again, thanks for the input.

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

Don't let the engine go below 2K rpm after shifting and you're fine.

You won't notice until the damage is done. And once it's done, the fix is expensive. Damage takes time; it doesn't happen in a few months.

Nope, it is not temperature dependent.

The Corvette prevents this, as do other high performance cars.

innews: snipped-for-privacy@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

Do I believe the Corvette trans. is built to withstand more abuse than a Honda manual trans.? Yup, esp. 1st and 2nd gear.

While I believe what you are saying, I often skip gears in my '89 Legend with over 210K miles and have had zero trans. problems. Other owners I know report similar experiences. Oh yeah, I used to skip shift my '72 Porsche, my old Audi and Integra, too. No trans. problem with any of these.

Having driven with other, shall we say less mechanically inclined drivers, may I say that Honda is probably on the right track but they've taken a wrong turn. LOTS of Honda manual trans. drivers DOWNSHIFT without attempting to blip the throttle via heel/toe or double clutching. There's the wear, they're using the clutch and trans. for braking. I have a hard time buying into the Honda line that skipping gears while gently accelerating is causing any damage. Sure, if you force the gear change, you're gonna cause damage. But for the most part, Honda is blowing smoke to cover up a weak trans. design, IMHO.

OK, I see now that it's not temperature dependent. But it *is* done for emissions purposes. And there's a straightforward chip mod. to defeat it.

Only up to a point. I can still abuse a cold engine.

The point being that GM designed the Corvette to skip gears under light throttle. No trans. damage. And the 1st to 4th feature doesn't interfere with routine driving.

Fine. Maybe the OP can figure out your point. If you are implying that you need heavy throttle to defeat the Corvette's 1st to 4th skip shift feature you are incorrect. You don't actually own a Corvette, do you?

So you think that GM though that a *design* that would force people to skip gears would be a neat feature that Corvette drivers would

In fact, it's a kludge they had to make late in the game to meet regulations. They don't put it that way in the glossy brochure of course, they spin it to look like a brilliant design feature that they intended all along. And you believed them...

I never said I owned a Corvette. They're OK but they're not my cup of tea.

What I actually said, if you read for comprehension, is that there's an aftermarket chip mod. to defeat the forced shift. It's simple and inexpensive, and all self-respecting Corvette owners have installed it.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

What I said was the skip shift feature does not harm the Corvette transmission. Nothing more. How you care to spin this, well, who knows... But thanks for the insight re. the skip shift. And it's to avoid the gas guzzler tax, which is not exactly the same as meeting regulations.

Sure, they have. You spend quite a bit of time reading catalogs, don't you?

Yes, I admit, I almost bought the aftermarket part when I first got the 'Vette but after a short while I discovered that it really wasn't necessary. However, if I drove it in urban traffic (lots of slow acceleration) then I'd install it. Happily, that's not my situation.

Not catalogs, good quality automotive magazines. Unlike you, the car maker's glossy brochures and the gee-whiz Chevy bling and hot rod magazines do nothing for me.

Dean Dark wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

As I recall (from reading those same good quality automotive magazines)...

Back in the '80s, the Corvette's forced "skip shift" was originally designed to help GM meet CAFE requirements, not EPA mandates. GM implemented the skip shift for the first time around 1985.

Maybe it's done for emissions now, but wasn't at the beginning.

Dean Dark wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Car and Driver magazine said that was the reason for the skip-gear;to meet emissions on the EPA tests.