2005 545i vs 2005 A6 4.2

E.R. haute in die Tasten:

Exactly. The german manufacturers BMW, Mercedes and VW Group agreed upon making cars not faster than 155 mph. Maybe also other manufacturers took part, but they currently do not sell such fast cars in Germany. The reason for that was avoiding a state law (which would probably have limited the cars at a lower level) and avoiding a reckless speed race. They also wanted to avoid the need for use of expensive and uncomfortable high performance tires. When the agreeent was imposed some years ago, it was not regarded likely that the manufacturers would make sedans with 500 HP;-)

Currently it seems that the manufacturers seek ways out of this agreement to serve the needs of the speed-addicts. So Mercedes limits only the cars sold under the brand name Mercedes, while the Mercedes-AMG models can go faster (up to 200 mph). BMW offers higher speed limits for their M-cars under certain condition (M3 CSL with 175 mph for buyers who can show a race drivers license). IMHO the marketing problem for the company is to sell the top of the line cars, when they are not faster than the cheaper models of the line.

Frank

[Snip]

... and Audi (or, rather, quattro gmbh) fudge the issue by saying that their cars are limited to 155mph (or, to be precise, 250kph), but then describing this as a 'soft' limit. It is quite clear that the RS4 and RS6 models are capable of comfortably exceeding 250kph (not that I've been brave enough to prove this in our land of 70mph limits).

An interesting thing (at least to me anyway :^) came to mind while reading this. It seems that for Europeans, when speaking about a "fast" car...it is top speed that comes to mind, while generally for Americans it is acceleration. Of course this has to do with speed limits I suppose, and maybe motorsports, but even for me when someone talks about how fast a car is I immediately think of acceleration 0-60 or 0-100, rather than *top* speed.

"Ramone Cila" haute in die Tasten:

Maybe it has to do with the speed limit. Drag racing for example is a true american sports, which does not have many fans in Germany, while we have 24 hours endurance races (where BMW recently won a class prize with a close- to-stock BMW 320d).

Frank

The story we got over here was that such an "arms race" would lead to a political backlash from the car-hating Green Party, resulting in actual laws that would be even more restrictive. So the carmakers agreed on the 155 MPH limit.

They also wanted to avoid the need for use of

A serious concern, with safety also. How can the safety of such high speed tires be assured over time? Tire technology wasn't as advanced then either.

No kidding. I remember when car magazines featuring 500 HP Ruf-modified Porsches, which seemed incredibly exotic at the time. Now such cars seem commonplace.

Ah, you Germans are so orderly (which is probably why you can have roads with no speed limits). Over here, any idiot can buy such things -- and they do.

Americans are not so logical. They want the "bestest" one, no matter the cost. It's all about the bling, baby! Besides, it's only $50 more per month!

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" haute in die Tasten:

Well, the car-hating Green Party was not member of the government, when the agreement was imposed, and even today their influence is way too small to bring us a general speed limit, even if they liked to;-)

Frank

"Matt O'Toole" haute in die Tasten:

Over here, too. There are lots of BMW tuners who do not limit their cars. Alpina has just introduced their brad new Alpina B5 with a five litre supercharged V8 and

500 HP. It is about as expensive as a new M5, features about the same acceleration and runs at least 30 miles faster - with an ordinary torque converter autobox. Currently Alpina is considering limiting the beast at 300 km/h (approx 186 mph) due to safety reasons.

And I am pretty sure that there are many companies, which legally remove the speed limiter for you (but I do not know what the insurance companies think about that).

I think the decision of BMW to sell the 280 kph CSL only to certified race drivers was some sort of marketing hype: They wanted to demonstrate that the M3 CSL is a street legal race car. It was no decision enforced by law.

Frank

I'm not sold on the new 5 Series looks, but, I have to tell you, the nose on that Audi is absolutely hideous. JMO/YMMV

Jeff

I have a 545 and although I wasn't completely enamored with it's looks it doesn't seem to matter to me anymore. I like the drive and performance and I love the spartan interior. I don't really dislike the new nose of the A6, but if one does, but loves everything else about the car, I doubt the nose will be much of an issue a few months down the road.

I just don't get excited about looks. Good or bad, they inevitably become unimportant if the car satisfies (or dissatisfies) in what I consider to be the more important areas.

Have you seen it in person? I saw a loaded V6 at the dealer and I actually like it, MUCH better than the pictures made it seem. Steve Grauman

I have a 530i with sports suspension, sports seats etc and most of the goodies. Bought it second hand 10 months old with 700 miles on the clock.

I cannot believe how the brand new price of both BMW and AUDI gets ramped up by the addition of options which the trade seem to consider as 'minimum standard requirements'. My 530i would have been £42,000 list with all the options and at that price I would not have bought it (I paid £27,995, which just goes to show how much these things depreciate, particularly the options).

In Prague recently I got to drive the top of the range Skoda Superb, with leather, sat nav, gloss wood, 19 inch alloys.

Given that I can buy this car in the UK for HALF the price of my BMW, I'd have to think very seriously before buying either of the cars listed in this thread.

I love my BMW (and I'd love a 6 series), but the pricing is for name and prestige, not value.

With my BMW, I get the best of both worlds. I get excited everytime I look at it and then i get to drive it.

How cool is that? ;-)

Jeff

You don't know cool until you open your garage door each day and see and then drive my RS6. d;o)

I thought that would be the case with my e39's, whose exterior design I liked a lot. I was taken the first time I laid eyes on one in person. But after a few months the looks didn't matter at all. Today the e39 looks downright dowdy to me, but I still love the car because it drives about as good as any standard sedan I've ever been in with the exception of an e60 without Active Steering.

It's pretty cool. That's how I feel about my Audi S8, as well. It has completely replaced my interest in any other German marque. It is truly fabulous.

Audi isn't nearly as bad as BMW. We test drove the X5 a few weeks ago before my mother got her Touraeg. The car was nearly $50k USD and didn't include several seemingly obvious options like power adjuastable lumbar. We would have needed to add another couple thousand dollars worth of options just to get the adjuastable lumbar as part of a larger pack. And they get like $48k for loaded

330's! Steve Grauman

With a Dinan 5 E39, and a "warmed up" S4, all I can say is take another look at the Audi. You can play with the BMW, but you can get downright serious with the Audi!! ...Lorne