Considering a BMW - A Few Questions

For a 3 series, you should be able negotiate at least $500~$1,500 off MSRP.

Yes, Bmw's require premium although lower octane may be used - but with lower performance and economy due to the retarded timimg. So it's probably penny-wise & pound foolish to use less than 91 octane. My 328i and Z4 3.0 both get 22 in town and 30 on the road with 92-93 octane, and I suspect that most of the cars you are considering also require premium.

I'm in the DC suburbs and my non-garaged 1999 328i still looks great (Zymol wax at least three times per year).

Tom K.

I'd go with the Lexus. I'll never buy another BMW, but that's just me. Do what you like.

No, most dealers will give the poor mouth, claiming they can't afford to lower their prices.

My owner's manual recommends the mid-range octane as a minimum. Another source recommends the highest octane, so flip a coin. I can tell you that while running mid-range, I still get pings, say, when going up fairly steep hills.

A bad seam under the edge of my hood started a bad (really bad) rust problem which spread to the top of the hood, lifting paint as it spread. This car has always resided in snowless (very very little anyway), sea-less central Georgia. And it has always been very well maintained (with regular washes and at least two waxes per year). Had to have hood refinished at my own expense.

I'd X out BMW as an option.

-- Cliff

Generally, no. BMW doesn't have a holdback, so there's no hidden profit for the dealer. They occasionally offer an incentive to buy a model that is being replaced ($4K on an E39 as it was being phased out for the E60). Large dealerships in large markets can typically offer a better price break than small ones. Best I've heard of was $1500 over invoice.

BMW's are tuned for 91 octane. You can run regular or mid grade then the EMU will modify the engine's performance. You'll probably noticed poorer gas mileage as well. If you're trying to pinch pennies in operating costs, I'd recommend a Honda or Toyota. Any savings you realize in running cheaper gas will be far outweighed by the preventive maintenance program when you exceed you 50K/4 years of "free" maintenance.

OK, but paint tends to be somewhat brittle and chip prone. If you share the road with lots of gravel trucks and folks that go offroad and then back on, clear paint protection would be a wise investment.

No. Just negotiate the best deal you can. No specials, rebates or such stuff.

Some, not all. Mostly the higher performance models.

less than optimum. The ECU will retard the ignition if it senses and pinging.

Why not redlining? It's there for a reason you know...

Fine. Virginia weather is mild.

I do not personally consider BMWs as "luxury" cars, though I suppose the

7 series is and the later 5 series qualify. They are more like European performance sedans (and coupes). That is why I buy them, for the performance and driving experience, not for any "luxury" features, and especially not for and "prestige factor". If you are looking for luxury and prestige, and do not really care so much about the driving experience then I would recommend the Infinity or Lexus.

I think the key is to drive one. IF you can't tell the difference between a BMW and Audi/Mercedes/Acura/Lexus/Infiniti, then get yourself one of those.

BMW use to require a very stringent maintenance program. (i.e., flush brake fluid and coolant every 2 years; change differential and transmission fluids every 30,000 miles). But with the advent of "free" maintenance and "lifetime" fluids, those intervals have been greatly extended. If you're the type that gets a new car every couple of years/100,000 or less miles, then it doesn't matter. If you like to keep your car for a long time, then it does make a difference.

Bottom line - drive one and see if you like it. If not, get something else!

Agreed. They (and similar Mercs and Audis) are as common as muck on German roads, and almost so in Britain. Not luxury, just nice cars.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

I ran my '94 3 Series on mid-grade for about 120,000 miles. No wories.

I'm on my second car now, and use mid-grade in it as well.

In the UK at least, BMW supply some models with less than base model specs - the "ES" (extra spartan?) I believe they take a base model and take things off of it. These are certainly not luxury cars. These days many manufacturers are providing equipment the same or better than BMW provides. I think you have to be BMW die-hard to only consider BMW these days. Dealers suck in general and paying a premium to get crappy service leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

In the UK the 3-series outsells the Ford sector equivalent the Mondeo so in a way the Ford is more exclusive.

I would have no problem however recommending a several year old 5 or 7 series as a "cheap" luxury car. You can get parts and servicing at non-BMW locations and drive around in something that only cost you ford money.

Why bother reading this group, then? Or are you wistful about what you're missing?

Lexus make fine cars. Pity they're just so boring to drive.

IMO, life is too short to drive (even luxurious) boring cars.

My 2 cents/pennies worth...

If you want a cosseting limousine like silky ride and lots of toys and gadgets in your car don't buy a BMW 3 series; a Mercedes C class (over priced)) or the new Lexus IS probably are better bets. If a classy luxurious interior is the priority the Audi A4 is probably the best bet. If reliability is the priority Lexus again, though any problems on BMW's are generally minor and few (according to various consumer surveys in the UK). Volvo and Saab win for seat and long distance driving comfort, the Saab

9-3 has the most comfortable car seat I've ever sat in. The Jaguar X-Type manages to be a great all rounder that sits somewhere in the middle of this lot and has one of the quietest diesel engines... which is meaningless in the USA

If you want everything else a luxury/executive/premium sports car can offer in a practical package (seats for passengers, trunk for luggage) then it's the 3 series. BMW beats Audi/Mercedes/Jaguar/Saab/Volvo on refinement (it's quiet), performance vs. fuel economy (comparing 5/6 cyclinder engines and diesels if you are in Europe), space (more leg room than the others and equal best trunk/boot space) and of coarse handling and steering responses. The build quality and quality of materials is higher than Toyota/Honda/Subaru. I was able to get the additional equipment I wanted from the options list without spending too much extra, lumbar support essential option for me as seats not quite comfortable enough without it.

The 3 series highlights are the engine and the drive, you have to want great handling as the ride is a touch on the firm side (hence the "limousine like silky ride" comment above) but for me never uncomfortable. There are some that hate the firm ride, so you need to drive it yourself.

BMW is not exactly exclusive but still very desirable and in demand used which still makes them a good buy despite higher prices as they hold their value well... at least in Europe.

There are few horror stories around on the internet about exploding engines etc., but just as many if not more similar problems with Honda / Toyotas etc. No machine is perfect.

Because I still *own* one. And the main reason I still own it is because I feel I've invested too much into it to let it go at its current market value.

-- Cliff

Hmmm -- haven't sat in one. Does it have the extended thigh support of the BMW sport seats?

My wife's 325i has the leather sport seats with 12-way adjustment, etc.. For me, at 6'3+", the extendable thigh support makes all the difference in the world.

-- Larry

have money. The reagular upkeep alone is quite more than a normal car. For example BMW requmendes full synthetic oil and you can?t go just any where to have the oil changed(reset the oil light). Call around a check you will be highly surprised at how hard it is to find people that will even touch a BMW. I found three places here that would change the oil, the prices was 120-100 just for an oil change.

lower than that.

Pretty good, I have a black/black which has no show of age and is in factory condition.

BMW's are awsome cars, they are luxury and sports cars all rolled into one. In a well maintained BMW you will get well over 300,000 miles. But, they are not cars you can just beat on like a Lexuses. If you know alittle bit about cars and buy your self a reset tool so you can change your own oil and do your own dignostics, and maintance, you wont be able to beat a BMW. Good luck! !

sport seats?

I don't think so, just a long seat base as standard, no need for extensions. 3 series plus sports seats a better option for the enthusiast as the Saab is a bit soggy compared to 3 series and Volvo even more soggy. Also engines though good, not as good.

The other day a colleague and I hired a Saab 9-3 (in western Europe), both driving it.

Our journeys were not long enough to comment on the seats but we both found it tinny and a great disappointment (his comments are not printable in a family newsgroup, even though this is not a familiy NG...). "GM penny-pinching" is another comment.

I had not been in a Saab for many years, having driven one once with a view to getting one as a company car. Tinny then, tinny now. Just did not feel solid, not at all like the Volvo S60 I rented a few weeks before. Now that was a revelation.

If you're wondering, he drives a VW Touareg, having had a BMW X5. We have a Merc CLK Cab and a 190E. Even the 190E feels more solid than the 9-3...

DAS

Depends on what you mean by luxury. Smaller BMWs are ceratinly not "luxury" in European eyes (nor are similar cars from other brands such as Audi and Merc). All depends on options selected as well.

See another part of this thread.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

PS. Cf the Saab 9-3, IMO we would probably have been better off sticking with the originally-reserved (European) Ford Mondeo...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

have money. The reagular upkeep alone is quite more than a normal car. For example BMW requmendes full synthetic oil and you can?t go just any where to have the oil changed(reset the oil light). Call around a check you will be highly surprised at how hard it is to find people that will even touch a BMW. I found three places here that would change the oil, the prices was 120-100 just for an oil change.

lower than that.

Thanks to all for your responses. Wow! Lots of responses!

Luxury and Sports car rolled into one sounds good! I'm sure that other lines/mfrs are considered more luxurious than BMW, but remember -- my experience has been Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Chevy and Ford (forgot about that last one in my original post).

One question -- I frequently hear about "performance", "well-engineered" etc, when it comes to BMW. Would anyone care to elaborate on exactly what that means to them?

Note: I haven't test-driven a BMW yet, but plan to.

Thanks!