Typical Cadillac attitude. "I bought a Cadillac,
therefore everything must be done for free, forever
We deal with those types of customers all day long
unfortunately. Of course, the tiniest leak that "must"
be fixed under warranty is quickly ignored when the
Cadillac owner becomes responsible for it. As is
nodding in agreement...simular to many vette owners that ive dealt with
that feel they must be 1st in line no matter when they drive in. always was
entertaining! not a cut to cadi owners but the line has been kinda pushed
to middle class of luxury cars with the onslaught of asian lux. cars....it
was nice to see them come out with a p/u tho. helps keep lincoln
Since I started this debate, here's my 2 cents. The dealer in question has
done all waranty work, maintance, and repairs on both my CTS and Escalade.
This amounts to thousands of dollars in revenue over the past few years. I
don't have the attitude that everything should be free; the dealer's in
business (like me) to make money and I have no problem paying for labor and
parts. However, as previous posts prove, this is a simple 2 minute job that
doesn't require any parts. Considering how much business they had from me, 2
minutes of a tech's time, without charge, seems to be a reasonable request.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Of course it is Luke..
I was the Assistant Service Manager for Mitchell Motors Cadlliac for a
and if I heard that from one of my Service Writers, he would of gotten
In my experience Cadlliac owners in general are very loyal to their
Dealerships for the
desirable Customer Pay jobs if the warranty work period was satisfactory...
Now I don't know about the new customer base sport sedan owners and Lux
But the Joe that owned a Coupe/Sedan DeVille, Eldorado was very very loyal
if they got treated right under the warranty period.
Because they might want to sell me another car? Oh I forgot,
they don't make any money selling the things -- just
I'm convinced GM deliberately designs systems so complicated
they can force you to come back to dealers to have them
serviced. Owners can't even perform routine maintenance
anymore because it requires special tools or filters/parts
available only at the dealer. Really disgusting and one
reason I've stopped having anything done except an
occasional oil change because I don't keep the things past
God did the same thing when he made man, every time my model breaks I have
to take it to a doctor to have it repaired. All I can do is feed it and use
it, never been able to do any surgery on it myself. Can't even buy a manual
for this particular model, what was He thinking, that He was GM?
Life is a sexually transmitted condition that is always fatal.
Right! That's certainly what we do at our dealership...hang
around waiting for do things for free so "you might" buy
another car. People like you won't be happy anywhere
anyways....so you might just as well bugger off.
How very ethical of you! Just pass your un-maintained vehicle
onto the next poor shmuck eh?
A tire pressure sensing system that needs recalibration with tire
changes seems like a lot of bother and expense. A much simpler, less
expensive and more reliable option would be a good tire pressure gauge
stored on the glove compartment.
Good idea, how often do you check your tire pressure? Not a day goes by
while driving do I not see tires that are under inflated, so having that
gage in the compartment does little good unless used. With runflat tires the
side walls are stiff enough that you can't visually "gage" the tire
pressure. Since I like a car to run at peak tune, that includes tire
pressure, it is a simple matter to check them while running down the road. I
check my tire pressure nearly every time I drive the car. It took very
little time to read the correct way to recalibrate the sensors and it takes
less time that checking the pressure with a gage. On a trip through the
Rockies I hit a sharp stone very hard and was able to bring up the tire
pressure and watch it until I was where I could get safely off the road and
out of traffic to check for damage. At that point the cost of the pressure
sensors was cheap to say the least.
Another system I see coming on line looks even better. It senses the
rotating radius of all of the tires, ties into the braking and traction
control system, and if it varies enough it will bring up a "low tire
pressure" message on your DIC. By utilizing the systems already in place and
working with the programming it brings about a very good and inexpensive
I miss my Cadillacs - ;-(
How often do I check tire pressure - every time I fill up. And I'm
able to run the low profile wide tread tires on my car at least 10,000
miles longer than I would otherwise. And I rotate them regularly.
True, but the same can be said for a pressure monitoring system. For
many drivers it will probably end up being another check engine light
to be ignored.
Anyone who thinks they can visually estimate 4 or 5 psi pressure loss
with a regular radial tire is kidding themselves. Sure you can tell if
a tire is at 20 psi when it should be at 35, but by then the damage is
done. A simple pressure guage is apparently far more reliable that the
built-in pressure sensing systems. How does the pressure monitoring
system warn the average owner that it needs to be recalibrated to give
a meaningful reading. That is a serious limitation for most drivers.
You are rare indeed, seldom if ever have I seen anyone check their tires
when they fill up, but then I've only been driving for 50+ years. How wide
is wide? The 285-35-19 that I run will go way past the estimated mileage as
they show on the tread depth right now for 11,000 and I don't rotate. Even
when I worked in a service station in the early sixties we had to ask if the
customer wanted his tires checked. Very few checked the tires and just a few
had you check the oil.
So your contention is that those that ignore a trouble message will be using
a tire pressure gage, get real. Very hard to ignore and it don't shut off by
Didn't even suggest that anyone could judge the actual pressure in a regular
radial tire by it's looks, my reason for making that statement is because
the runflats don't show any signs of low pressure at all, regardless of the
amount. I see that you have had no experience with a runflat tire and
therefore no experience with a pressure monitoring system.
How do you know that? As far as the accuracy of a hand held tire gage,
forget it. If you take most of them out and check the same tire with
different gages of the same make they will give you varied readings. The
only thing you know is that the pressure is similar in all four tires by
using one gage.
Actually the Corvette system seldom needs "recalibrating" if ever, but it
throws a warning if the readings vary considerably between all four tires.
The pressure seems to be monitored very well as checked by an industrial
dial pressure gage with a tire chuck attached, not the $1.97 trash that most
people use. Of the 4 Corvettes I've had with pressure monitors I've
recalibrated them maybe a half dozen time, and all of those were when I was
mounting racing tires on different rims with diffrent sensors and/or
switching back to street tires. After the first time they would set
themselves and not require recalibration because they went to the same
Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
Pressure checking is not so rare at least in my area.
Nope, my point is that a pressure warning system is a tool that could
be useful, but will be ignored by many and will become little more than
another expensive automated gadget t ignore or figure out how to switch
off. A pressure gauge will be as effective an automated warning system
for most drivers. And it will be a whole lot cheaper.
Unfortunately there are a lot of drivers who have conditioned
themselves to routinely ignore the check engine and engine warning
lamps as well as the text messages that scroll across the dashboard
display. Like the many people who continue to run out of gas after the
needle has passed into the orange area AND the red warning light has
Quoting you: ...are stiff enough you can't visually "gage" the tire
pressure. It is not possible to visually gauge tire pressure with any
reliability under any circumstance period.
Really now. If handheld gauges are that inaccurate then how useful or
accurate can we expect a pressure sensing system to be. Remember, it
is nothing more than analog sensors rigged to a digital display. And
how can a driver rely on such a system if it goes out of calibration
with no warning. I've checked several different handheld gauges and
they are plenty close enough for maintaining reasonably accurate
Your experience does not appear to be the same as the caddy owner -
strange isn't it. Come to think of it I have never had a handheld
analog gauge go out of calibration.
That's an "unusual" way of dealing with life, wouldn't you say?
Ah yes, it is cheaper and the pressure monitering system will be very hard
to remove cheaply from any car that is built with it in the system. I assume
that you will not buy a car after the required pressure sensors are in the
2010 models? Actually seems like your point is that you're cheap and the
government can't change that by mandating pressure sensors. By the way they
are also trying to get the runflats mandatory are you going to resist that
also or just the pressure sensors?
Wow, you got that down pat, I've never seen that orange area or the red
light, what happens next? You are still suggesting these people will use a
tire gage over reacting to a warning light?
Now come on, is it the thumpty thump that tells you a tire is flat? Or, big
question here, can you see that the rim is very close to the ground or the
tire has a much larger bulge in the side, (runflat not included), than do
the others on the vehicle? Actually you can see it, you can hear it, you can
feel it, and last but not least, you can smell them when they go flat, all
of this is under certain conditions of course.
Did you ever hear about offsets for tweaking the accuracy of the interface
between a electronic component and its sensor? My assumption is that if a
system goes out with no warning that it is the same as any other aspect of
life, you deal with it. Why do you think they go out without warning, I
don't remember that being the issue? Nothing was said about that, only when
his tires were rotated and the revenue enhancement guru kicked in.
You should use it more, but then close is good enough as you seem to think.
All of our analog gages were calibrated on a regular basis and they do/did
fail, but then I dealt with precision gages and if you do it would surprise
me. My direct reference was to the Corvette as it is cross posted, I would
expect you to realize that. In reality the Cadillac owner was talking about
them wanting an added cost figure for resetting his sensors. My first reply
was how to do it yourself. You are the one that is fixated on the
usefulness/value of the pressure monitoring system.
Can be and if that's the way you might choose to live, that is your choice.
Life is a sexually transmitted condition that is always fatal.
Nope, didn't say that did I would stop buying cars now did I. Truly an
asinine statement for you to make wasn't it.
I was also stating the obvious - that there are a lot of drivers who
routinely ignore important information fed to them via the dashboard.
Just because the latest warning system has to do with tires is no
reason to believe their behaviour will change one whit.
What happens next should be obvious. The engine stops. I can't tell
you the last time I ran out of gas, but there are plenty of people who
do. As I've restated several times now those people will ignore useful
information provided them no matter the subject. I can't tell you
why...maybe unlike you and me they don't appreciate the consequences of
ignoring warning messages. Will they use a tire pressure gauge if it is
in the glove compartment - most likely not. But having an unused
analog gauge in the glove compartment is a whole lot cheaper than an
unused analog tire pressure monitoring system installed in the car.
Unfortunately it is the thumpty thump or the loss of steering control
will be the first warning sign most drivers will heed. Wish driver
behaviour was more defensive, but in my experience most drivers react
to the consequences of problems rather than anticipating them.
If you don't believe what should be obvious, just try a blind test.
It would appear to be your choice in responsible lifestyle given that
it appeared at the end of your post.
You really need to read a little better John, it wasn't a statement, it was
a question. Is that the problem, someone, heaven forbid, questioned you
The obvious is that change seems to come hard for you as with those other
Allot of drivers and most drivers seem to be rather poor at driving in the
manner you think they should. Thankfully I drive where most driver do a
pretty fair job of avoiding problems. For those other drivers I have the
unique ability to forsee problems that could be an incident and avoid them.
Sort of like low tires and poor visability are indicators that I shouldn't
be there when the accident happens.
Obvious like tire pressure monitoring systems do work?
I see you didn't care to answer how accurate the tire pressure monitoring
systems can be, must be out of your knowledge base.
Not really, it is just a somewhat funny collections of words I keep in my
compartment, but never use them for what they were intended. Get the point?
You assume allot. Try to deal in facts, it's enlightening.
One thing I do try to avoid is not cross posting, this one got out of hand
and will stop here for me.
Change where there is a defined benefit is a good thing. However the
TPMS is a perfect example of an expensive gee-whiz technology with at
best a minimal benefit.
Not sure what you are saying here.....a confusing statement at best.
I think you are saying that your driving skills are pretty good in this
Not sure what your point is with this statement.
I have no doubt that a tire pressure monitoring system can be accurate
as accurate as a good hand held gauge. But if it goes out of
calibration then it is not a reliable tool especially for less than
sophisticated drivers. A TPMS does not offer much improvement in tire
safety over a hand held guage for virtually all drivers in all driving
situations. As I remember the TPMS became an issue after a very few
drivers of inherently unstable vehicles (SUVs) had blowouts and they
reacted the wrong way. A TPMS won't solve that problem.
I've got to ask about knowlege bases. That's a pretty fancy buzzword
that just rolls off the tongue of many consultants in these parts. So
tell me what a knowlege base looks like and how one can be inside or
outside of one.
The fact is that you closed your message with that phrase. Apparently
you give little thought to the meaning of words, since in your words:
Never Use Them For What They Were Intended. Words are just so much
attention getting filler.
A couple of items that seem to be in confusion here.
1. The caddys need to know which sensor is reporting from what corner,
hence the reprogramming requirement on a rim relocation.
2. The vette\caddy system is accurate to pounds pressure while the abs
derived system is only proportionally accurate. In other words it
comparing 1 tires rotating distance against the other tire. If you think
about the amount of pressure loss needed to be useful as a "tool" then
it's pretty much only usefull in warning of immnent disaster, not tire
pressure monitoring.(they are talking about being able to detect a 20%
loss of tire pressure as a usefull indicator)
John S. wrote:
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.