1993 Plymouth Grand Voyager 3.3 - Stalls when hot

Hi all,
I am updating a post from August 9th:
The answer to this problem turned out to be CRANK SENSOR, apparently, though why this sensor is so affected by temperature I'm not sure.
Most of the conversation is pasted below, apologies to those whose names are omitted, and thanks to all who replied:
I have a 1993 Plymouth Grand Voyager 3.3L.
This Problem is tricky.
The problem is that the vehicle stalls after running for several minutes at
normal operating temperature, and won't restart until cool. If you start it
completely cold, it runs great, and will consistently run about 15 minutes
before dying.
The engine turns but doesn't start once it is hot, as it cools, you start to
get sputters until it is cool enough to run, but it won't run long if it is
not cooled down a lot.
There is good spark when it is stalled.
Fuel Pressure is consistent and ample (48 psi)
Starter fluid fires it right up, but then it dies when the fluid is burnt
away.
Computer reports no error.
This problem is consistent.
It is not OVERheating when it stalls.
I AM STUMPED. I guess I can try some sensors snd relays, but I would like
to try the most likely ones first.
THANKS for any ideas....

crank, cam or map sensor. Another item would be the egr valve. Have it
message

off ; one for the engine controller, another for the gauge. I believe that the resistance is 10k ohms at 25degC ; 800 ohms at operating temp. However, i 'd suspect the fuel tank cap first. André

rule out a poor connection (corrosion, or incomplete mating) of a connector.

sensor. Does not cause a code, just stalled a hell of a lot when warmed up. Work's fine for the first couple of miles till reaches operating temp then dies!

the engine's operating temperature. There is also only one coolant temperature *sender*. It talks to the dashboard gauge and tells it whether to lean towards "C" or towards "H" or to stand right in the middle.

sensors - the easy way. Have you checked the fuel filler cap ? Not sure? Try running the car with the cap not fully tightened. Techtalk hereafter is extracted from my Alldata CDROM, 100% applicable to my car. It will include some background info, to prevent you being ripped-off. I have a 3.3L 1993 Voyager, and it has definitely two different temp sensors. One is near the thermostat, has 2 wires, TN/BK(=sense) and BK/LB(=5V), connected to the PCM. The other one is bolted in the front cylinder head, has one wire, VT/YL, connected to the Body Controller, driving the temp gauge. Your PCM temp sensor and wiriig is probably OK, as the fan will run with open sensor. Your car has no distributor, and the ignition timing is driven by the CAM sensor. Hence, your CAM sensor is probably also OK, as the engine will not run with a faulty CAM sensor (no TDC passed to the PCM) Now, to the point: The PCM temp receiver circuit (inside the PCM) has two ranges, low and high temp. Range switching occurs around 125°F. Your problem could be related to a faulty PCM upper temp range. As it is so expensive to replace a PCM, it is worth to check this: Check the voltage at the PCM temp sensor, TN/BK wire, and search for the range switching. During warm-up, the voltage will increase slowly from about 2-3V up to nearly 5V You will find the range switching as a sudden voltage drop, of a few volts. Anyway, for either a cold or hot engine, the sense voltage should be above 1-2V and below 5V. André
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"john213" wrote: > Hi all, > > I am updating a post from August 9th: > > The answer to this problem turned out to be CRANK SENSOR, > apparently, though > why this sensor is so affected by temperature I’m not sure. > Most of the conversation is pasted below, apologies to those > whose names are > omitted, and thanks to all who replied: > > I have a 1993 Plymouth Grand Voyager 3.3L. > > This Problem is tricky. > > The problem is that the vehicle stalls after running for > several minutes at > > normal operating temperature, and won’t restart until cool. If > you start it > > completely cold, it runs great, and will consistently run > about 15 minutes > > before dying. > > The engine turns but doesn’t start once it is hot, as it > cools, you start to > > get sputters until it is cool enough to run, but it won’t run > long if it is > > not cooled down a lot. > > There is good spark when it is stalled. > > Fuel Pressure is consistent and ample (48 psi) > > Starter fluid fires it right up, but then it dies when the > fluid is burnt > > away. > > Computer reports no error. > > This problem is consistent. > > It is not OVERheating when it stalls. > > I AM STUMPED. I guess I can try some sensors snd relays, but I > would like > > to try the most likely ones first. > > THANKS for any ideas.... > > > > > Vapor Lock? > > > >  >>If it was vapor lock there would be no fuel pressure. > My guess would be > crank, cam or map sensor. Another item would be the egr valve. > Have it
> wrote in > message > > > >   >>>John, If it is really temp related, check the > temp sensors. There are two > off ; one for the engine controller, another for the gauge. I > believe that > the resistance is 10k ohms at 25degC ; 800 ohms at operating > temp. However, > i ’d suspect the fuel tank cap first. André > > > >   >>>>I was also going to suggest temp sensors as > one possibility, and don’t > rule out a poor connection (corrosion, or incomplete mating) > of a connector. > > > >   >>>>>This happened to me in my old van before. It > was the coolant temp > sensor. Does not cause a code, just stalled a hell of a lot > when warmed up. > Work’s fine for the first couple of miles till reaches > operating temp then > dies! > > > >   >>>>>>There is only one coolant temperature > *sensor*. It tells the computer > the engine’s operating temperature. There is also only one > coolant > temperature *sender*. It talks to the dashboard gauge and > tells it whether > to lean towards "C" or towards "H" or to stand right in the > middle. > > > >   >>>>>>>I agree with Daniel to have a scanner > hooked up to check the > sensors - the easy way. Have you checked the fuel filler cap ? > Not sure? Try > running the car with the cap not fully tightened. Techtalk > hereafter is > extracted from my Alldata CDROM, 100% applicable to my car. It > will include > some background info, to prevent you being ripped-off. I have > a 3.3L 1993 > Voyager, and it has definitely two different temp sensors. One > is near the > thermostat, has 2 wires, TN/BK(=sense) and BK/LB(=5V), > connected to the PCM. > The other one is bolted in the front cylinder head, has one > wire, VT/YL, > connected to the Body Controller, driving the temp gauge. Your > PCM temp > sensor and wiriig is probably OK, as the fan will run with > open sensor. Your > car has no distributor, and the ignition timing is driven by > the CAM sensor. > Hence, your CAM sensor is probably also OK, as the engine will > not run with > a faulty CAM sensor (no TDC passed to the PCM) Now, to the > point: The PCM > temp receiver circuit (inside the PCM) has two ranges, low and > high temp. > Range switching occurs around 125°F. Your problem could be > related to a > faulty PCM upper temp range. As it is so expensive to replace > a PCM, it is > worth to check this: Check the voltage at the PCM temp sensor, > TN/BK wire, > and search for the range switching. During warm-up, the > voltage will > increase slowly from about 2-3V up to nearly 5V You will find > the range > switching as a sudden voltage drop, of a few volts. Anyway, > for either a > cold or hot engine, the sense voltage should be above 1-2V and > below 5V. > André
Hi, I came across this exchange on the forum after googling in search of answers to exactly the same kind of problem as yours. I drive my 1993 Chrysler Voyager 3.3. every day across the French-Swiss border to work. Since a few weeks, I have been experiencing the same problem as the one you describe (note the coincidence of car type and year) and did not manage to solve it satisfactorily so far, despite lengthy visits to both Swiss and French Chrysler repair shops. The first repair done was just a “good” cleaning of the injection chamber (?), to no avail. Then came the replacement of the gas pump. As there was no real improvement, they kept the car for a good while in the hope that the computer would at least show some failure somewhere, but no. After neutralizing a loose cruise control cable under the hood and replacing the top dead center sensor (?), it seemed the problem had finally been solved, but it has started again. I have seen what was said here about the coolant temp sensor, and now the crank sensor, so I will see if these clues can be useful to the repair shop. Hope it works this time. I’d be grateful for any supplementary info, but please in plain language as I am not too versed in mechanics. Thanks beforehand. Pierre in Geneva
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