And you thought Chryslers were bad?

GM is having big gasket problems too...what's going on with gaskets these days?

A much larger percentage of engines are now all aluminum, and the new non-silicate OAT coolants (like DexCool) are crap and eat gaskets.

I work for an AC Delco parts store, and there is a certain intake manifold for GM's that we can't keep in stock. I looked a little closer at it and the darn thing is made of plastic! Talk about cuttin corners on building engines! I bet we sell about 5 of those per week. And they aren't cheap at about $160 a pop.

I believe plastic there is quite common now.

horizontal oposed 6 cyl. subarus? they have always been that bway. cam boxes leak bad.

????

$160 each for a $1 piece of plastic? Wow.

Nothing wrong with plastic if it is proper engineering plastic. What is the basis of your thinking it's only a dollar?

Furthermore, I would have thought you know that the material cost of an item may only be a small part of the selling price, which may bear large development costs, marketing, distribution, stockholding etc before you get to profit.

DAS

For that application, glass filled PPS (Poly Phenylene Sulfide - I think that's right - I know the initials are right, Phillips Ryton?, also a Hoescht-Celenese version) is about the only plastic that should be used (and probably was). Raw PPS molding material is about $4 to $5/pound (which is expensive as plastics go in general), but as you point out, the material cost isn't the only thing that determines the selling price.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Does not compute! I was told that Japanese cars were always better. Ahhh!!!!

Is it kind of like those crappy engines Mitsubishi made for Chrysler?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only good Jap brands for reliability (if there truly is a difference) is Toyota and somewhat Honda.

i was thinking yamaha and sony ...lol

It is not the same kind of plastic as used to manufacture your wife's hairbrush whhich would also have cost more than $1..

Chrysler uses plastic intakes too. So does most everyone now... modern cars are just not meant for the long haul.

But GM seems to have shot themselves in the foot by running the EGR tube through the plastic intake manifold- it gets hot and warps the plastic, dumping DexCool into the oil, which then turns to sludge, seizes the cam bearings (particularly on the Chevy 3.4) and snaps the (hollow) camshaft in two. Instant scrap metal (and plastic :-/)

Sorry - my bad - $5. Even if it was $20, $160 is horrendous markup for a part that *fails to to the job properly*.

Actually, 90% of the problems with those engines was the exhaust manifold. That's easy to fix compared to pulling the whole thing apart for a new set of gaskets.

I wasn't criticizing you - just stating facts. Yeah it is a shame that we, as the end user, have to end up paying exhorbitant prices for things that, though out of warranty, are obviously poor design. In general, I'd say the main problem is that there are so many conflicting constraints and pressures on designs due to space, weight, cost, etc. as well as the need to explore new, uproven territory to stay competitive, that the ultimate performance and longevity of a given part or system can't really be known until it's put into the field.

It would be nice, though, if the manufacturers would take more of that risk and uncertainty themselves (i.e., when it is obvious that there is a problem with a given design, that they cover the cost rather than go strictly by the warranty - just look at all the TSB's that discuss known chronic issues - design screw ups basically, but the cost of remedying is only within the scope of the warranty).

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Geez, I had my intake manifold gaskets replaced at a gm dealer on my 5.7 v8 and ALL the parts and coolant and oil they used were less than $100. The gaskets themselves show up on the invoice at under $38! tad

That's pretty expensive for a plain old Chevy 350. You ought to be able to get that intake gasket for under $20 for that engine. But try pricing out the same job on a late-model Chevy 3400 or Buick 3800 if you want to see expensive...

"Bill 2" wrote

I think the Japanese reputation for durability is mostly hype. Owners of imports in general, and cars with a quality image like Toyota in particular, tend by nature to be more careful about service. Owners of domestic brands tend to be more "drive it and forget it". This more than anything explains the difference. I look in my local on-line auto trader and its impressive to see how many extremely high-mileage K-cars, Escorts, Malibus, Tempos, Cavaliers and other so-called "cheap" domestic cars are offered for sale, with claims of "runs great".

I bought a 1984 Plymouth Horizon in 1983, supposed to be the ultimate cheapo junk car. It ran like gangbusters for almost a decade of serious road-warrior duty, commuting to work through Canadian winters, lasted a quarter of a million kilometres, never needed to be towed, cost very little for maintenance or repairs. How could you get better than that?

In 83 I had 2 4WD Toyota Tercels Wagons. I bet they are still around. Although I got rid of mine in 91, tons are still on the road. So I suspect they were more reliable then your Horizon. Haven't seen one in years around my area.