Can oil & filters change cause enging fire?

The engine in my 1999 Chrysler Town & Country caught fire yesterday causing total loss of the vehicle. What is strange about this incident is that it happened right after the oil change was done by one of the automotive shop chains, specializing in quick oil, tire, batteries and other small car repairs. It actually happened just minutes after I left their location and was driving back home. I understand that many things may cause engine fire, but on the other hand it happened so immediately after the oil change was performed, that it is very hard to believe that it was purely coincidental. The repair included air and oil filters change and engine oil change. Shortly after I started on my way home, I felt fain smell as if of burning oil. Ironically, the fact that the oil change was just done made me complacent about it - I thought it was some small spillage. When it became stronger and visible smoke appeared, I stopped, cut the engine, went out and opened the hood. Unfortunately, it was too late: there was a lot of smoke and the left side of the battery, closer to the engine was on fire and dripped plastic. When the fire department arrived, the whole of the engine compartment was burning.

Some questions I have: Could the oil and filters change cause engine fire so soon after it was done? I asked both the fire marshal's and the tow truck driver's opinion. Both think that it is unlikely. They said that it takes a lot to actually ignite oil even if it spilled as a result of incompetent repair. Also, the firemen succeeded extracting the oil probe after extinguishing the fire and it seemed to indicate that there was oil in the engine. I did some web research on the year/model after I came home and found out that there was indeed recall on 1999 Chrysler T&C back in 2002 related to increased incidents of engine fires. This is the recall description:

The problem is that this vehicle was with previous owner in

I apologize for the long post. - Wanted to give all the facts. I'm not trying to put the blame on anybody - just trying to understand what went wrong. At this point I see a lot of my blame in all this - for not researching the recall history and not checking what recall repairs were actually done and most of all for not having a fire extinguisher in the car... But still I somehow have this lingering suspicion that some blunder occurred during the oil & filters change which they didn't tell me about - it all happened just too soon after it.

IP.

Sorry to hear about the fire and loss. I doubt the actual oil or filter change was the root cause here since both are primarily done from under the engine and related to the oil (which does not burn easily) .

That said, like you, I would strongly suspect that the timing of this incident was not purely coincidental! It's hard to imagine what they could have screwed up while simply changing air and oil filters, but hey, stranger things have happened. Maybe they knocked a fuel rail loose while they were changing the air filter or a PCV valve or filling the oil through the fill hole?

Bob

I researched the oil as cause of fire and it does seem unlikely.

That was my initial suspicion too - both fire captain and tow truck guy said that fire caused by oil leak is unlikely. The engine was cooling for two hour and then it all happened just minutes from when it was started again. They suggested fuel leak or fault in electric system or battery as a cause.

The service took unusually long - it normally takes an hour or so, but in this case it took almost two. Last half hour, which I waited nearby, I've seen mechanic busy working from the top part of the engine. I even had some feeling that there is something wrong besides the service I asked to do, but they didn't tell me anything, although I must admit that I didn't ask when they finished. Could it be the air filter that took him so long or he was trying to fix something that he messed up accidentally?

I'm also wondering should I pursue this with this repair shop chain. They have a big name and probably will be very defensive and deny everything if I try to blame it on them. Also it looks almost hopeless to prove anything at this point and confirm their fault as causing fire - the engine compartment is badly burned and by looking at it there is no clear indication of where it started.. I was thinking about going to them today and asking if there was anything else they did on the engine or any difficulty with the oil and filters change without giving any indication of what happen to the van after the service.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

You can give the dealer your vin number and they can tell if if there is any outstanding recalls on your vehicle. The fuel rail fix was replacing the rail assembly if it is already leaking ( you would have been smelling fuel ) and if it wasnt to install these seals and clamps I have seen some fires related to oil but those were on the old turbo vehicles Chrysler had. The power steering pressure hose could develope a leak and spray on the catylitic convertor and catch fire. (mine was one of them). I dont think you oil change was related, especially if you say it occured on the battery side of the vehicle. My opinion only

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

I used Chrysler's web site to check if there are any recalls not performed. There doesn't seem to be any. It looks like it is the same source of information the dealers would use - there is the link from the "Owners" page to the recalls query. Mine didn't return any outstanding recalls.

I wasn't smelling fuel while driving, but now that you mentioned it, I should say that while the van was parked in enclosed garage there was fain smell, sort of mixed oil & fuel smell. My other car, Honda Accord didn't smell at all. I wonder if this fuel rail recall repair was actually performed on my vehicle since it was with the previous owner on the year of recall - 2002. Would it be visible as pending in recalls query I done through chrysler.com if previous owner didn't apply for this recall repairs to be performed? - I think it would since the query is for all the recalls which where not actually performed. I'll try to call the dealer where it was serviced by the previous owner to try and find out if it was indeed done.

This isn't strange at all. It's completely predictable. Burger-flip rejects at the quickie oil change place fail to tighten the oil filter correctly, or overtighten/strip it, or spill oil (trans fluid, power steering fluid) while filling it, or the low-quality oil filters they use burst at the base/can seam. Oil hits exhaust manifold, ignites, and there's your fire.

There's a reason the oil changes are so cheap and quick at those places: They employ unskilled morons, and they rush the work.

...except that this recall would virtually certainly already have been done on your '99 vehicle, and you didn't smell fuel, you smelled *oil* burning.

Yes.

Yes.

DS

Engine oil is not as difficult to ignite as you seem to think.

Do you even know what a fuel rail *looks* like? It's not something that can be "knocked loose while changing the air filter".

So your judgement was poor twice: Once when you went to the quickie oil change house in the first place, and again when you failed to demand an explanation for the hour's worth of futzing around under the hood.

No, replacing the air filter takes a few minutes max.

Very likely.

Of course you should!

Dan,

In answer to your question, I most certainly do know what the fuel rail looks like. It seems presumptuous of you to assume I do not by asking this question.

The bottom line here is we will likely never know what caused the fire. I was offering an opinion since the OP had requested this from newsgroup readers.. You are certainly entitled to your opinion as well and it is fine with me that it differs from my own. That said, your question appears to be demeaning and was not called for...

Yes, I'll admit that oil leakage could certainly have been the cause of the engine fire, but it's flash point is much higher than that of gasoline, and the location of the oil filter on the 3.8L engine is not conducive to the theory that this was started by the high temperatures at the exhaust manifold or catalytic converter.

Bob

...or gasket of old filter stays on engine, new filter gets double-gasketed/doesn't seal...

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Could the engine be hot enough after driving for five minutes to ignite it if it was not working for almost two hours before that? Also fire dept. extracted the oil probe after putting out the fire. It indicated there was oil in the engine. Also there was no lights indicating that something was wrong.

I don't have any idea what it is. Is it close enough to air filter to accidentally damage it while changing the air filter?

I very much appreciate your opinion. It is very helpful and knowledgeable. Unfortunately, it'll probably be impossible to determine what caused the fire. To quote the fire captain: "There's plenty of staff here that can burn". Even headlights lids are made of plastic. BTW in tow truck guy's opinion, batteries are frequently causing fires too. I'm not sure whether he meant battery causing fire all by itself or electric wiring

In your opinion, is it worth while pursuing it with this repair shop or they would just flatly deny any involvement? I also tried consulting attorneys, but those guys are after bigger cases for the most part. Besides, as many posters mentioned, it would be probably hard to prove direct relation of the work performed to the fire and attempts to litigate this may cause some additional fees and lawyer's fees besides the car that is already lost. What do you think?

The question is how to do that. If I just go there and confrant them with what happened. I doubt that they will admit anything. Then the burden of proof will be on me. The question is can anything be proven with enough certainty to go to court against them provided that the engine compartment is badly burned and it probably impossible to tell where the fire actually started...

I think if you have comprehensive auto insurance, as most people would on such a young vehicle, that you should file a claim with your agent and explain that it took place minutes after leaving an oil change house.

Once your insurance company pays the claim then they own it, and can choose or not to go after the oil change house. I would think that they would. It isn't an issue of whether you can or cannot prove anything. The fact that the fire started minutes after you left the oil change place means that there's a preponderance of the evidence that a mistake they made caused the fire. It isn't your job to prove that they touched something other than the oil.

Sure, it's tough luck on the oil change place if in actuality this was just a terrible coincidence. But that is why they carry business insurance on themselves. Sometimes these things are true conicidences. But that is rare.

If however you don't have comprehensive insurance then your going to have to suck it up. You should call the oil change shop, and ask who their insurance carrier is. If they refuse to give the name to you then call the district attorney. Once you get the carrier's name then call the carrier and explain your situation and throw yourself on their mercy. Of course they may tell you to blow off, and if I were you I would pursue it in small claims. I would also pursue it with the local news while the story is still fresh.

Ted

Do you have insurance that covers loss/damage to your vehicle due to fire? if so, file a claim and let the ins. co. deal with it: they've got more lawyers than you can afford.

Perce

On 08/02/05 08:03 pm I.Pavlov tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Yes. By the way, you can easily duplicate this experiment. Take a car and drive it until it's good and hot. Shut it down and let it sit for 2 hours. Start it up and drive for 5 minutes then stop, and take an eyedropper of oil and squirt a few drops on the exhaust manifold and see what happens.

Meaningless. Suppose for example that there was a pinhole in the oil filter. Oil squirting out of that at high pressure could create a fog that could flash ignite, then touch off the battery.

Ted

Not in the slightest. Your suggestion that the parts monkey at Quik-E-Loob might have "knocked the fuel rail loose while changing the air filter" was a very strong indication that you know nothing more than that there is such a thing as a fuel rail.

Well, sure, the very shop you took your vehicle to will probably deny all. But, these places cause enough problems that Corporate usually keeps a fairly large insurance fund around to deal with them. I'm sure the place you went will supply you -- cheerfully or jeerfully -- with contact info for Corporate HQ, or you can hit Corporate's website to find out where to send your letter.

Fires get investigated all the time, and for the right expert, it can be much easier than seems logical to pinpoint the proximate and contributing causes of the fire.