Engine Oil/Additives for high mileage 3.0

Bill Putney wrote:


But, of course! I'm an engineer, it is expected. :-)
Matt
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:

I haven't switched many, but I have switched a couple - likewise always with good results.
Matt
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wrote:

What a crock.
IIRC, synthetic base oils typically have *less* natural detergency than petroleum base oils, therefore they require *more* detergent in the additive package.
Switch all at once, or do it gradually -- it makes no difference. When you get right down to it, synthetic oils just aren't that different from conventional oils. They're significantly better in extremely hot and extremely cold conditions, and they tend to degrade more slowly. But beyond that they're pretty much the same as conventional oils. Some of the early synthetics had a tendency to harden seals, but they pretty mich fixed that 20 years ago.
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User wrote:

So which is it? Are they not very different or are they a lot different? Or does it depend on which side of the different/same argument you are on at the moment? Can't have it both ways.
I challenge you (not literally of course, but think about it) to take two severely sludged-up engines - leave one with the conventional oil it has been using all along, suddenly change the other one over to synthetic oil. Then drive them both for a couple of months and see what happens. I wager that in a double-blind study with a ststistically significant batch of cars, there will be a very high number of catastrophic failures in the cars that were switched over to synthetic. In both categories, there will be a similar number of cars that would have failed anyway out of shear coincidence of the timing of the study.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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wrote:

Actually, it depends on whether you're talking relatively normal driving conditions, or extremely severe driving conditions. For 99% of what the typical driver does, regular oils are fine. For the driver in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, or doing the Baja 1000, a synthetic might be the better answer.
Under normal conditions, they're just not that different.

And there will a similar number of catastrophic failures in the cars that kept using the regular oil.

Yep.
If there was a statistically significant chance of ruining your high-mileage engine by switching over to synthetic, rest assured the synthetic oil makers would be warning us about it. There's no way they'd let such a phenomenon sully the reputation of their product.
"Gosh, 150,000 miles on dino oil with no problems. I switch over to Mobil 1 and in three months my engine siezes." Imagine the PR problem they'd have if this was true.
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User wrote:

My point is that it *is* true. Whether the problem is real (as I believe) or imagined (as you believe), posts *precisely* like you said appear all the time, so I think what you say about it being a PR problem is not correct. All kinds of atrocious design problems happen all the time on cars, and usually by the time the mfgr. reacts (if at all, and then only when forced to by politics or - yes - bad PR, but only under certain, very special conditions), it's a moot point as the next platform has replaced the old with a new set of problems. I can give you a list just on LH cars. It is a myth that serious problems with products result in huge PR problems. How about split dashboards on 300M's. ...sludged up 2.7L engines. ...a.c. evaporators guaranteed to leak after 5 or 6 years. ...window regulator attachment clips that routinely break. ...windshield wipers that run erratically and stop randomly in weather below 30F.
There are all kinds of examples of bad and even unsafe products that are real but that the public is so ignorant of that the PR effects are insignificant (after all, "the competition has problems that are just as bad, so we kind of blend in"). Modern business slogan: "We're no worse than anybody else."
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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wrote:

Since you say such posts appear all the time, perhaps you could steer me toward some of them.
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User wrote:

They have a very good search engine. Let your fingers do the walking.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

Oh - sorry - that would be on www.dodgeintrepid.net - I was mistakenly thinking your question was directly in the branch of the thread where that had been mentioned.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

I searched for "synthetic oil" a few minutes ago and found nothing about engine failures in the first 4 pages of hits. I found some claims of smoking and leaking after changing, but no claims of engine failure. And I saw more supporters of synthetics than detractors. Are you sure this is the right place? :-)
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

You might have to use different words - they may say Mobil 1 or some other brand without mentioning synthetic.

Can't help that. Where have I said people should not use syntyhetic oil, especially in a relatively new car? Whether synthetic oil is good or not was not the question.
Are you sure this

Yep.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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wrote:

You're the one making the unfounded assertion. Let's see a few examples of these many posts where people say they had problems in high-mileage engines after switching to synthetic oil.
Come on. It should be pretty easy, shouldn't it?
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User wrote:

Sure - but I'm willing for you to think me a liar rather than go to the trouble. Knock yourself out.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Bill Putney wrote:

High mileage engines might be touchy. It would be good to hear that it's okay. In my case, a semi-synthetic seemed to do much better, so far, touch wood, than the regular dinosaur oil. The car seems better and does not burn oil whereas before it would burn a quart every 1000 or 1500 miles. This is 5W-30 ConocoPhillips. There is one dealer who uses it in all the cars, and I mean all, so I'm inclined to use this dealer for oil changes, which are more expensive than other places, just because of this product. I don't think it's a coincidence. Or it could be just this particular semi-synthetic is good. The dealer bought this in a really big bulk package so I'm hoping the dealer still has some of the same stuff this year. Who knows.
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wrote:

That's the response I was expecting. Thanks for playing.
Truth be told, there's no reason *not* to switch to a synthetic at any time during an engine's life. They're not going to shake loose all sorts of crud that's built up through the years. And if you use them from the start, chances are you'll have a lot less crud build up through the years.
I don't understand these attitudes toward synthetic oil. It raises such passions. On one hand you have the Amsoil droids spewing testimonials all over the place, and on the other hand you have people raising all sorts of concerns about the use of synthetic oil.
It just isn't that different.
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User wrote:

That's why I didn't go to the trouble - you'd not be convinced anyway, would you (answer: no). I've played that game with other dishonest people before.

Your opinion - and that's fine.

Duh! Where have I said otherwise. You're being dishonest by implying that I've said anything like that. Once again, that's why I didn't go to the trouble of doing your search for you - pearls before swine.

I've been nothing but matter of fact thru this whole thing. I simply state a precaution about suddenly switching over on a high mileage engine. The only "passion" as you call it that I've seen here is from you.

And I am neither one of those.

To quote Ronald Reagan: "There you go again. When you want to talk about synthetic's temperature stability, you want to talk about how superior (different) it is. And quess what: I agree. Does that shock you? Once again, you've proven your dishonesty by emphasizing how *different* it is in some characteristics (when it serves your purpose), but when I want to point out what I think is another difference, you want to emphasize that "there really isn't much different".
As with many things in life, we both are free to choose what we believe based on whatever. Whether right or wrong in a given area, we will both reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of our beliefs. I'm calm about it. You're the passionate one.
When it comes to synthetic, though you have me saying things that I did not say, I think it boils down to only one point of disagreement. I'm satisfied to accept that we disagree on that point. Are you?
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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wrote:

But there is absolutely no foundation for your "precaution about suddenly switching over on a high mileage engine". You claim there are many posts from people reporting major problems after such a switch, but you refuse to provide any examples.
There aren't any examples. There's absolutely no reason "suddenly switching over to synthetic" in a high-mileage engine would cause any problems. So please stop perpetuating this myth.
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User wrote:

Yes - and I explained why.

Matt disagrees with you, but you ignore that too.

You can't make me.
People can make up their own minds.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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wrote:

Recall: :::"Sure - but I'm willing for you to think me a liar rather :::than go to the trouble. Knock yourself out"
ROTFL!!! Quite the explanation!

Nope. Matt found some examples where people complained about oil leaks. You are claiming "many posts" from people reporting major engine damage due to synthetic shaking loose deposits in high-mileage engines. No such posts exist.

And it looks like you've already made up *your* mind, despite the lack of evidence. That's called 'faith', not 'science'.
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User wrote:

Glad I could brighten your day.

No - *you* don't see any, so therefore (in your mind) none exist. Funny how, below, you talk about working on faith - seems to be where you are coming from. Perhaps you would respond that you are also coming from personal experience. Well guess what, oh passionate one - so am I (which you dishonestly continue to ignore).

That's where your continuing dishonesty comes in. I have made up my mind on what I have personally experienced and what I have read (you want to focus on one and not the other). So I'm working on faith according to you - so where's *your* science (and - no - I don't accept "Synthetics are very much the same except if we're talking about things that I can use to claim that they are superior - then they're *way* different - other than that, they are the same").
Bottom line is that I could find the posts - it would take some time that I'm not willing to spend. That combined with the fact that, presented with posts saying precisely what I said, you would dismiss them anyway because it would go against your faith. You can't prove your point - I can't prove mine, which is why, right off the bat, I brought up a controlled study, which neither of us is going to do.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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