High mileage oil question

On my 15 year old Pontiac with 135,000 miles I plan to switch to one of the "higher mileage" oils. It uses 5W30 normally. I didn't see any Pennzoil HM in

5W30, but I believe is is available in the Valvolvine Maxlife and the Quaker State HM formula. I don't think I want to start on synthetic at this stage of the game. Am I correct that there is no 5W30 in Pennzoil HM? And is there any particular reason to choose between the Valvoline and the Quaker? Thanks.

GS

Reply to
GarySport
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Yep. Quaker goes on sale around here more often.

Reply to
Jimmy

I would recommend digging around on

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and reading the articles AS WELL AS the discussion forums where people have posted the results of their own oil analyses.

For one thing, there doesn't seem to be much (if any) benefit to "high mileage" oil formulas at all. For another, several people reported that after initially looking very good, Valvoline Max Life apparently underwent an (un-publicized) reformulation and a key additive was drastically reduced.

Reply to
Steve

|GarySport wrote: | |> On my 15 year old Pontiac with 135,000 miles I plan to switch to one of the |> "higher mileage" oils. It uses 5W30 normally. I didn't see any Pennzoil HM in |> 5W30, but I believe is is available in the Valvolvine Maxlife and the Quaker |> State HM formula. I don't think I want to start on synthetic at this stage of |> the game. Am I correct that there is no 5W30 in Pennzoil HM? And is there any |> particular reason to choose between the Valvoline and the Quaker? Thanks. |> |> GS | | |I would recommend digging around on

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and reading |the articles AS WELL AS the discussion forums where people have posted |the results of their own oil analyses. | |For one thing, there doesn't seem to be much (if any) benefit to "high |mileage" oil formulas at all. For another, several people reported that |after initially looking very good, Valvoline Max Life apparently |underwent an (un-publicized) reformulation and a key additive was |drastically reduced. | |

Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

The following High Mileage Oils are API Cetified:

THE VALVOLINE COMPANY MAXLIFE 10W-30 SL THE VALVOLINE COMPANY MAXLIFE 10W-40 SL THE VALVOLINE COMPANY MAXLIFE 20W-50 SL THE VALVOLINE COMPANY MAXLIFE 5W-30 SL VALVOLINE OIL NEDERLAND BV MAXLIFE 10W-40 SL/CF CONOCOPHILLIPS COMPANY (KENDALL MOTOR OIL) KENDALL GT-1 HIGH MILEAGE SYNTHETIC BLEND 10W-30 SL CONOCOPHILLIPS COMPANY (KENDALL MOTOR OIL) KENDALL GT-1 HIGH MILEAGE SYNTHETIC BLEND 10W-40 SL CONOCOPHILLIPS COMPANY (KENDALL MOTOR OIL) KENDALL GT-1 HIGH MILEAGE SYNTHETIC BLEND 5W-30 SL PENNZOIL BOLIVIA SA LONG LIFE 15W-40 CF-4/SH PENNZOIL PRODUCTS COMPANY LONG LIFE 10W-30 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL PENNZOIL PRODUCTS COMPANY LONG LIFE 15W-40 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL PENNZOIL PRODUCTS COMPANY LONG LIFE 30 CF,CF-2/SJ PENNZOIL PRODUCTS COMPANY LONG LIFE 40 CF,CF-2/SJ PENNZOIL PRODUCTS COMPANY LONG LIFE 50 CF,CF-2/SJ PENNZOIL PRODUCTS COMPANY LONG LIFE EF 10W-30 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4/SH PENNZOIL PRODUCTS COMPANY LONG LIFE EF 15W-40 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4/SJ PENNZOIL PRODUCTS COMPANY LONG LIFE EF 40 CF/SJ PENNZOIL QUAKER STATE MEDITERRANEO SL LONG LIFE 2000 15W-40 CF,CG-4/SH PENNZOIL QUAKER STATE MEDITERRANEO SL LONG LIFE 2000 20W-50 CF,CF-4/SJ SHELL MEXICO SA DE CV PENNZOIL LONG LIFE 15W-40 CH-4 SHELL MEXICO SA DE CV PENNZOIL LONG LIFE 40 CF SHELL MEXICO SA DE CV PENNZOIL LONG LIFE 50 CF SHELL MEXICO SA DE CV PENNZOIL LONG LIFE PLUS 15W-40 CI-4

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Reply to
jediwrench

Good idea. A dizzying amount on that site to read. If you go to the forum, please READ and use the SEARCH feature before asking a question. It's probably been covered before ... extensively.

Correct. It is hard to tell what benefits, if any, the ester content in these oils have. The 10-15% ester content (esters are a synthetic, Group V component) is supposed to condition seals and prevent/reduce leakage. Bobistheoilguy is skeptical of their ability to work as advertised but I've seen them work ... just don't expect miracles.

--- Bror Jace

PS - What usually makes oils non-API certified are higher amounts of anti-wear additives like ZDDP (zinc & Phosphorous). Except for their possible effect on catalytic converters, they are a GOOD thing. API certification is overrated. Be minful of it only if you are worried about your warranty and 98 people out of a hundred don't have to be.

PPS - Valvoline Max-Life was one of the first mass-market oils to use molybdenum as a barrier wear additive. After about 1 year, they removed this ingredient and the oil wasn't the same. However, most brands have been using moly to replace some ZDDP in motor oils and I wouldn't be surprised if Valvoline added at least some moly back into the formula.

PPPS - Yes, Pennzoil High Mileage Vehicle IS available in 5W30. It's base oil is better than Val Max-Life and it's additive package is more effective as well.

Reply to
Bror Jace

Thanks to all who responded. I did finally find some of the Pennzoil HM in a

5W30. I'm not noticing any leaks at all, so I wasn't investigating its use to solve a eal problem, but was thinking more about "prophylactic" use in this 15 year old vehicle with 135,000 miles. I've always used just regular oil with strict changes every 3-3.5K miles. Thanks for all the comments and info.

GS

Reply to
GarySport

Then don't change.

Reply to
Jimmy

A few years ago I was curious and did some research on this topic. Turns out, Consumer Reports did a major test on motor oils to see if the synth oils showed any measurable advantage over regular oils.

They put identically rebuilt engines (they pretty exhaustively outlined their rebuild procedures and it sounded like they knew what they were doing) in a number of taxis, and ran them for a specified distance, I believe it was 50K miles.

They found NO difference, zero, nada, betw standard oils that had the SAE seal and the synths.

Reply to
Doc

Cool.

So, how long have you driven hack in NYC?

Reply to
Stephen Bigelow

Which is a pretty useless test.

50k miles isn't much, and a taxi is not a good test vehicle as there are hardly *any* cold starts.

My 1995 Audi A6 2.5 tdi (turbo diesel) is a better test. It has almost 200k miles, has been run on synthetic (Mobil 1) since I got it at about 40k.

The last four years it has always been parked outside, summer and winter, with no block heater, and the oil service interval is about 10 kmi (15kkm actually). There has not been any problem starting it at

-25°C, which is about as cold as it gets here in Uppsala, and only recently have I had to add a quart between the oil changes.

Synthetics are also *very* good at keeping your motor clean. Two years ago I had to rebuild the 351C in my Pantera, which has always been run on synthetics, and it was perfectly clean inside. The reason for the rebuild was that the bores were glazed, and a couple of plugs fouled constantly. There were no ridges and a simple hone fixed the block. I did install new pistons, mainly to increase the compression ratio, but didn't have to go oversize.

Ten years ago I had to pull the head of an old Audi 200 turbo quattro, with 100+kmi, as a couple of header studs had snapped. When I pulled the valve cover, the aluminum inside was as shiny as when the the car was new. That car had an oil service interval of 5kmi, and it would not have been a problem doing twice that. The only visible difference after running 5kmi was that the oil was very slightly darker yellow than the new oil. Many oils are darker than that when new. That car was exceptional, I have never had a car that kept the oil so clean. It may have been due to the car having a separate small oil filter for just the turbo.

I have seen plenty of motors run on mineral oil, and not one of them has been even close w.r.t. the cleanliness of the engines running on synthetics.

Thomas (even running the lawn mower on Mobil 1)

Reply to
Thomas Tornblom

JMHO, but if you have a vehicle with only 135,000 miles, NO leaks, and if it doesn't burn oil, then the best "prophylaxis" against future problems is to use the best LUBRICANT you possibly can. And to do that, I would GO SYNTHETIC! Make it last even longer. Horror stories of >100k mile engines turning into fountains of oil leaks when switching to synthetics are just that.... stories.

Reply to
Steve

The last two words above render any conclusion useless as far as I'm concerned. Real world oil analyses show definite merits for synthetics, and clear differences between different oils. As usual, Condemner Retards testing "methods" are wholly inadequate to detect anything except the conclusion they WANTED to reach when they started out.

Reply to
Steve

*eyeroll*

Let's all sing the ScAmsoil song...again!

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

The ester seal swellers are a small portion of the base oil and only have a mild swelling effect.

I have never heard of a leak caused by these high mileage oils nor Red Line, NEO and other ester-based oils.

--- Bror Jace

Reply to
Bror Jace

I could be wrong on the mileage since it's been a while since I read the report, but the question on cold starts is an interesting one. I.e., do synths do any better at staying adhered to the moving parts during non-use periods any better than the non-synths. I don't know for a fact that they didn't make sure the taxis in question had sufficient cool down time. I'd have to look up the test again.

However, I have to disagree that 50k isn't enough mileage to demonstrate a difference if there were any. I do recall that after the test they broke down the engines and measured wear on the moving parts, I believe they had the oil analyzed as well. 50K is several years of driving and half the life of some cars.

Interesting, but I would question holding up one used car as a valid example, regardless of the environmental circumstances. What are you using as a control? How do you know it's not simply the workmanship and metallurgy of the components? What about that initial 40k that it had already been run? These issues can make a huge difference between cars. Show me the results when a number of this exact model are run on synths and non-synths from day one under very similar conditions. That's what Consumer Reports did.

Can you explain how the oil will "keep the motor clean" and keep itself clean at the same time? Are you saying it supposedly has some greater capacity for picking up contaminants? By definition, the oil itself would be MORE dirty then. What about the filters?

Well, yeah, that among other things could be a factor.

Again, same problem. The "test data" you've cited is all seat of the pants, too non-specific, with way too many variables to be considered a valid comparison.

I'm certainly open to persuasion. Can you point to any properly conducted, independent studies that demonstrate that synths "stick" on metal better, and overall do a better job given the same circumstances?

Reply to
Doc

Reply to
Richard Russell

Can you substantiate why you say this?

Can you point out which independent studies show this?

Again, can you substantiate this? I've been looking around and haven't found a case they've lost after being sued, which would seem to indicate their methods stand up. Haven't been able to locate what the final outcome of the Suzuki case was.

While it's not impossible, it's not clear to me what they would stand to gain by publishing a biased report?

Reply to
Doc

What bearing does that have on anything? Are cab drivers required to be experts in auto mechanics, metallurgy, fluid dynamics, physics, chemistry etc.?

Reply to
Doc

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