Greater percentage of wrecked cars being scrapped rather than repaired

I guess the answer to this then is to keep the ABS and get rid of the people. :-) Hogwash! Personally, after owning three cars with ABS, I went back to non-ABS cars and have _better_ control over the behavior of the car as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes controlled skidding is a desirable directional control maneuver in a evasive response situation...which is very difficult type of maneuver to do when the vehicle has ABS.

| > They build what people buy. | | And people buy what they build. C'mon, now, did anyone *demand* $100 car | keys? |

I've been asking for $100 car keys for 30 years now!! ;-) I'm so happy!!!

| | >

| > There're at least three of us (I'll let Mister Three nominate himself if | > he so chooses). | | Just call me miss Four :) | | Lisa

Mr. Five! Too much gimmicky stuff in cars these days!

Interesting. I didn't know most of that. Being significantly smaller and lighter than the hypothetical 50th percentile male, I'm a bit less enthused about airbags at the moment.

Sounds like I'm still safe being enthusiastic about seat belts though :)

Lisa

All ABS does is make sure that you hit what you hit square on. It does NOT reduce stopping distance in my experience. When it gets slippery using ABS brakes is like stepping on the clutch or throwing the car in neutral.

From my experience in the insurance industry (I am in an insurance (broker's) office 2-4 hours per day) I don't believe ANYyTHING that comes out of insurance company studies

Boy, This is SCARY!!!! I'm agreeing with Dan Stern, and he's agreeing with me!!!!!!!

Actually Dan the topic is the costs of high tech equipment in cars including expensive xenon bulbs. Re-read the original post.

What annoys me about the keys (besides cost and size) is the cars that use them which still also use worthless steering wheel locks.

I agree with you 100% on this Dan. In fact I would suggest an improvement..... if the seatbelt is not latched, the air bag doesn't go off at all. That should help take care of the genetic pool of non-bucklers.

Are you referring to traffic statistics or crash tests or both?

Heh heh! That'll be a special feature of the new 2006 Daimler Chrysler Darwin LXi!

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

There's definitely some truth to that. I'm now in the process of negotiating with another motorist's insurance company on totaling out my daughter's car from a 15 mph accident last week.

The value of the car is - errr - was - $3k, give or take. Here's what needs to be replaced: Left fender ($45 CARTA certified aftermarket), bumper cover ($107 aftermarket), left front turn signal assy. ($45 aftermarket complete), and possibly a strut ($85 higher end aftermarket

- if that's needed, will replace left and right to keep things balanced, so $170). So right at $370 in parts. But the labor for install and especially the cost of painting calculates out to a total loss! I was amazed, and others who know and see the car are too. I put $400 in medium quality brake parts three months ago (parts cost only plus my labor), and literally 1-1/2 weeks ago put $350 worth of tires on it! (And before anyone asks - yes - I plan on buying it back for 15% of salvage value after the settlement offer.)

I still can't believe that broadsiding a 30 pound, 18" high dog at 55 mph two years ago did $3000 of damage to my Concorde. And I thought modern bumper design was supposed to cut insurance costs by lessening damage. I am constantly amazed.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

I think a lot of this is due to the continued pressure by the insurance companies on states to make auto insurance mandatory. When you go from a state where 30% of the drivers are insured to a state where 100% of them are insured, the 70% of drivers that wern't insured before, wern't insured most likely because they hardly ever had accidents. So the insurance company gets a windfall of customers where they rake in a lot more than they ever pay out, which funds the small percentage of idiots that kill people or otherwise cause the insurance company to pay out giant settlements.

The other thing too is that since cars are so expensive, this makes more of the customers buy comprehensive insurance, which once again increases money going to the insurance companies. And since the insurance companies always make a guarenteed profit (since they raise rates to cover their costs) the more money they take in the more they make.

America's insurers declared profits even for the year that 9/11 happened in. They have a long, long way to go before the rising costs of car repairs will be felt.

Ted

geoff snipped-for-privacy@nospam.hotmail.com

Yes - but every year as car prices continue to rise the "They" is a smaller and smaller number of people.

The average new car buyer today has more money and lives in a higher economic bracket than the majority of people. Part of this of course is because the new car buyers of today are such idiots that they get involved in insane financial deals like leases, which basically empty their pockets and end up with another really good used car dumped onto the market while the lease holder gets a new vehicle and gets tied even deeper into the auto company fiance people. Geeze - why bother being a new car buyer anymore when you can pick up so many 3 year old vehicles that will have an equivalent lifespan (to the purchaser) of a new car, yet have already had 50% depreciation on them?

It is obvious (to me at least) that people who are willing to spend the equivalent of a house payment for 2 new car monthly payments a month, have more money than they know what to do with. So they tend to waste money on fripperies - like heated seats, computer controlled dashboards, baloney like that. All this extra baloney of course consumes more and more money to maintain, so the end results are households where both wage earners are making 6 figure salaries, who have so little unbudgeted money that they can barely afford to buy a hamburger for lunch.

If more people making 6 figure incomes were watching what they were spending, and saving their money, we would not have these rediculously overengineered vehicles today, and the savings rate in the country would be 5 times what it is.

Ted

OK: having read the 36 posts on this topic, done bodywork for 30+ years, & run the website Screwed By insurance (.com - temporarily down due to lack of hosting funds & complete apathy in this country) for 4 years, I feel I'm qualified to make a few points. (in no particular order...) #1 The more expensive parts such as headlights, etc. *do* cost the insurance cartel more money in low-speed accidents. #2 Cars are now made to fold up - absorbing the impact - in higher-speed accidents (this can mean anything from 15 to 20 MPH on up). This causes more $$$ worth of damage, thus the reason (as per the original post) that more cars are scrapped. HOWEVER, this also SAVES the insurance cartel more money than they spend on the cars - in hospital bills! #3 I personally would rather walk away from a crash & total the car than save the car & spend some time in the hospital. #4 I would also never own a car with airbags, or if I did I would dis-able them. Why? They can go off in a minor bump or off-road excursion causing you to loose control of the car. I may have to hit the ditch to avoid an oncoming drunk or something (it's happened). BTW I *always* keep my seatbelt *tight*! I'm used to it that way; I'm not comfortable if it's not. I've repaired cars with hair, flesh, & even teeth imbedded in the broken windshield. #5 It's the MANDATORY insurance laws that are the reason for high insurance. When you GO TO JAIL if you don't have insurance, the cartel can charge WHATEVER THEY LIKE! Now, I know someone will say "but it's state regulated"; Yeah - regulated by politicians that ALL - & I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM (you can check if you like) get kickbacks - called "campaign contributions" - from the insurance cartel!!! #6 The airbags typicly do $1,800 to $3,500 worth in interior/windshield damage & air bag cost. #7 I don't think anti-lock brakes have done much (if anything) to reduce accidents/damage. I know of a couple cases where drivers could *not* stop ("I had my foot on the brakes but the car just kept rolling") in loose gravel causing some damage. They are probably great in ideal conditions emergency stops when complete idiots are behind the wheel... Personally I know how to stop a vehicle as quickly as it can, &/or when to let of to manuver. #8 There's been another thread posted adding to this, stating how modified cars (lowered, etc.) are sooo dagerous & should be illegal (among several other things just as ignorant). To this I can only say this guy dosen't have a clue & should move to a dictatorship. Due to inflation: my 10 cents worth. ;^p ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

Not at all. Leasing is the cheapest way for the average person who is not a mechanic, has no interest in fixing their own vehicle or paying inflated garage rates to fix it, and who is time-conscious to drive a car. If you had a job or other situation which *required* reliable, no-excuses transportation, and you had, say, $400/month, leasing would be your only feasible option.

If you are an auto hobbyist, if you like modifying your cars or using them in competition, or you simply have enough time and knowledge to do it yourself, then congratulations - but you are in the minority.

Used cars depreciate less today than ever before. What was a '55 Chevy worth in '58? And don't forget what it costs to replace modern parts.

Leasing permits you to *absolutely fix* your vehicle ownership costs. It isn't for everyone; it makes good sense for a lot of people. If you can't afford to write a $4000 check on the spur of the moment to fix a big problem with an older, unwarranted car, and you need reliable transportation, it makes a *lot* of sense.

...and once people stopped spending "frivolous" money and buying "frivolous" products, the men and women building, selling, and marketing those products would find themselves out of work, where they could enjoy their accumulated savings for as long as said savings lasted. Eventually, under your vision of spending as little as possible, we could return to a subsistence agriculture model where every family grows their own necessities and never wastes a single penny on economic activity outside their own plot of land.

I'm guessing you are not an economist.

ABS does one thing. It makes the most of the available traction. If there is no traction abvailable, it's not going to help at all. If you do have traction, it will often produce shorter stopping distances than your average driver could.

-------------- Alex

Leasing is never the cheapest way for anyone to do anything, ever.