Anyone know anything about Gilberns?

I looked at buying an Invader Estate before I got my Scimitar.

Like early Scimitars, they're powered by the good old Ford "Essex" V6 - some spares for these are getting difficult/expensive to acquire, though John Wade up in Wolverhampton can usually help [he is *the* V6 man!].

Rear axle is BMC [Austin Westminster?] and, I believe, has parts interchangeable with Sherpa Van diffs.

The nasty thing about Invaders was the way some of the chassis was essentially "glassed in" to the bodyshell - it's not easy to separate body and chassis for repairs like it is on a Scimitar.

The Gilbern Owners Club does offer replacement body panels.

See

Big problem is the awful Ford Essex V6 - unreliable greedy and now diificult to get parts for. Anything wrong with the engine best bet would be to fit a 2.8 Ford v6 complete with 5 speed box or a Rover V8

Engine aside the Gillbern is as terrific car which was highly regarded by the real motoring journalists of its day. I had a shot of the MGB engined model -- it felt very solid

As always with these cars.. It's often a question of figuring out where they sourced a part from and then trying to track it down. Some parts may well be unobtainable and require a work-around.

Chassis is bonded into the GRP body, which I'd find a worry. Handling is said to be good, albeit unsubtle. Ride is certainly primitive.

Snap - I nearly went after what I think may have been the only surviving automatic Invader estate. Someone else got it first, though, so it was Scimitar time again :)

I've always felt the Essex was "old" rather than "good". Lots of torque, lots of weight, a reluctance to rev. and a tendency to run hot (and the everlasting gasket problems). Earlier Gilberns (Mk.1 and Mk.2) will probably have the Zodiac engine (or will have had it originally), which is less powerful and generally a worse bet. Look for the location of the dip-stick: if it's at the back of the engine bay (so that you're almost certain to burn your fingers on something when reaching for it) then it's the later Granada engine, if it's at the front then it's a Zodiac donk.

Agree.

Automatics used the Type 35 Borg-Warner, which is a bit weedy for the torque and for which parts are getting problematic. Conversions to take a Ford C3 should be possible, conversion to take a 4ALD possible but difficult and expensive (though arguably worth it - my Scimitar is running very nicely with its new 4ALD box[1])

And it's not easy to figure out when it needs repairs. At least with the Scimitar you can see what's happening to the chassis (and poke it with screwdrivers and so on).

Front suspension will likely need looking at too - I've seen a high proportion of Gilberns sagging at the front, suggesting that the weight of the Essex is getting on top of things.

Having said all that, they're a very appealing car. Probably a less complete car than the Scimitar, but appealing.

Am probably going to be welding one up next week, so can give you a bit of feedback on it then if you like. Having a look @ it over the weekend to see how much needs doing, then make a start on it later.

Are they really? It must have been about the most common UK auto.

We put a 4.4 litre Leyland P76 V8 in a Rover P6B 3500 a few years ago and the BW35 shat itself twice before being upgraded. Cost, aggravation and delays. Much torquier motor, box at its limits. Should have put a

The 35 was originally intended for cars up to 2 litres but it was so much lighter and cheaper than the mk8 and DG series BW slushboxes that it gradually worked its way up to the bigger engined BL cars :-) The 35 was really over engineered it would survive for 100,000 miles on the early 1970s 4.2 XJ6 before the 2nd gear brake band would cry enough.

I don't think it was ever fitted to the 4.2. My '74 had a Model 12. The

Later 3.4 cars used the Model 65.

Interssting re DG - had that in a Jag Mk IX, with the intermediate speed hold. Good box. Also had a Wolseley 6/110 with change-up speed control by a cable - DG also?

Depends on the add-ons used to make it fit. Custom selector cables when they were fitted into small-production cars can be the curse of the things, as I learned when the selector cable bust on my Scimitar. It's hard, going on impossible, to get a replacement now. Gilberns, I suspect without being sure, might fall into the same catagory.

The BW35 definitely got warm when I was towing, and slip on the change from 1 to 2 was getting to be an annoyance (again when towing) - that might just have been a result of the optimist's oil cooler on it, though (a miserable little bit of copper tube).

Dave Plowman waffled on in a quite bewildering manner to produce...

Very weedy, and about as reliable as a Fiat Strada engined Frontera.

Shouldn't that be a Frontera engined Fiat Strada. Just trying to think of the worst possible combination, and the engine is certainly not the worst bit of the Strada ;-)

Bob Sherunckle waffled on in a quite bewildering manner to produce...

A Frontera engined Strada? That's just sick !!!

There's two sorts of 35 installation - with and without a huge great oil cooler. If you kept the temperature down, they lasted pretty well. Tow a caravan up hills all day and it was another story.

-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

My main encounter with the DG was in the Humber Super Snipe it had a minor problem in that it could jam in park if left on a hill and the handbrake didn't hold that well -- it needed several strong bods to push it back to release it -- the Snipe was a heavy beast. I think automatic Hawks had the model 35. I think production of the bigger B&W boxes was phased out in around the end of 1969 hence the model 35 being found in totally unsuitable applications until itwas replaced by the 45 & 65.

As with many Italian cars or that era, you paid for the engine and got the rest of the car free with it...

The little Lampredi 903cc in the Panda was a joy, the rest of the car, however...

ANDREW ROBERT BREEN waffled on in a quite bewildering manner to produce...

you could always put the 600cc Strada motor in.....

Anyway, Gilberns... I'd quite like one, just cos they're Welsh. I'd fit a trip computer that always called you Boyo, and refused to start the car if the Rugby was on.

Well, yes, but it's no big deal to make a new cable up - I did just this for my GM180 when I discovered how much they cost.

No - Jaguar for one continued with the Model 12 into Series III production when it was changed for a GM, around about '80.

The 4 speed 45 was pretty rare - I can only remember Rootes using it.

The 65 was used by Rover until they changed to the GM 180 in the SD1.

The GM units were pretty well state of the art then - wonder where they went wrong?