LPG?

Is it worth the trouble? think not - would spoil the classic.

How would it spoil it? We're only talking bolt in parts that can be ditched at any time to return to original. I'm seriously thinking of getting my Vitesse converted, just slightly put off by the uncertainty regarding the duty over the next year or two.

Will Holman had an LPG conversion to a classic Merc in a recent edition of Practical Classics - look up the back numbers.

I had my DS converted. It's great - no effect on perfromance, especially after I fitted a transistor ignition amplifier, and fuel bills down by around 50%. The only downside is a loss of boot space, but I would recommend it to anyone ... as long as the economics make sense. It cost a thousand pounds, which means I have to do around ten thousand miles to break even. Which I'll do within a year, but if a classic is being used for just a few thousand a year I wouldn't bother.

My conversion was done by Simon Sparrow at Go-LPG near Birmigham. I have no connection save as a very happy customer - he did a very neat job indeed, and seems very happy to deal with oddities and one-off jobs.

Ian

Because in order to get car insurance without a monumental amount of grief and expense, you'll need to have it installed by an approved installer. That then takes the way it's installed out of your hands.

I have a car which, while I would not claim it to be a classic (to avoid starting that one again) is insured under a "classic" policy, i.e. NCD not required, limited mileage, sd&p only, etc. It had an amateur lpg conversion before I bought it, and the insurers, Equity Red Star through Lynbrook, have not asked for any form of certificate.

The "monumental" annual premium is £94, comprehensive, including breakdown cover, for 3000 miles. It's 1983 Range Rover V8 3.5, since you didn't ask. I have to say that for the particular purpose I own it, I'd sooner have a diesel, but I am looking at the latest Bentley, a Mk VI, to see whether conversion would be feasible. D-i-y for, say, £400?

-- Kevin Poole

********Use current month and year to reply (e.g. snipped-for-privacy@mainbeam.co.uk)************** B270NZ, SA 1838, TC 8512, GAN3/48519, GAN4/63840, GHD5/324616 Tiltbed car transporter trailer hire - £25/ day. Near Derby. May even tow it for you.

Have you had to/been honest enough to declare a major modification from the maufacturers original spec?

Or is it a question they didn't ask and might quibble about should you ever have to claim saying it something you should have thought about telling us.

I only ask because one of my policies didn't ask and the Insurerers were less than happy about paying out after an altercation with a lampost on Reigate Hill. My crime was not to think about telling them that the ignition system was fired by propanegas rather than petrol for the hot tube ignition which was originally fitted in 1898.

Andy

If you have a car that demands 5 star petrol and have (or had) to get hardened seats and valves fitted it's got be worth getting a gas conversion. It will allow you run the engine without octane booster or large loss of power from adjusted ignition. Keeps the engine cleaner, won't wash the bores with petrol on starting or at idle. That short run out one evening to make sure everything works before a run to a rally won't do as much harm if the car doesn't get fully warm. It will still collect some water in the oil but not raw petrol and soot.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Thanks, I may look him up. I will be doing about 12k miles a year so it will be worth it, as for boot space, that's never a problem as I'm selling my bike to fund the car.

Interesting, never thought of that.

Ajmac, who frequents this group occasionally, has a 4.6V8 series 1 LandRover with LPG / Petrol. He's got a natty US system that dials in (lots) more advance when firing on gas, more power, smoother running etc. I think he's got it rigged to be continuously variable from a dash mounted pot. Nice touch, and no messing with an ECU.

-- Ken Davidson

Did it run on petrol vapour from a Surface carb?

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

OK then what is the cost of conversion by a licensed fitting to make it comply. - mileage, petrol costs, insurance, how will these relate to cost savings and how long will it take to recoup the costs.

I think that it makes gas far more expensive than petrol for the limited mileage of a classic.

Cheapest I've seen advertised is around 400 for a 4 cylinder car. You then start adding supplements for a doughnut shaped tank, twin carbs, more than four cylinders (not sure why this costs extra), etc. This brings my Vitesse up to 500 or so, or 700 if done by my nearest local place. There are cheaper options, like shopping around for parts, fitting them yourself and then paying someone to make the final connection and certify the installation.

I reckon on two years to pay it off at my current mileage. But, my mileage would probably rise if the fuel was half price!

As I mentioned before though, biggest fly in the ointment is that the government haven't promised to hold down the duty on LPG beyond a certain, fast approaching date (dunno, look it up). So price could suddenly double overnight, though that seems unlikely.

Another advantage for me is that I get less than 200 miles from a tank of petrol. Extending that range would be very welcome.

Not sure I follow this. Are you saying that the octane rating of LPG is higher than unleaded petrol? I'm not disputing you, just asking. I do know that the calorific value of LPG is only about 72% that of petrol, so you either use a greater volume or get reduced performance, though this may apparently be counteracted by the improved metering of a modern LPG system over old fashioned carbs. Or is that what you were getting at anyway?

No Peter The hot tube ignition originally was fired by burning petrol on the outside of the engine. The petrol was held in a tank behind the driver seat with a small pressurising bulb half way down the pipe. It went down to the burner just under the tube.

It was changed at some time before I got the car, to a gas burner with the bottles hidden under the front passenger seat. Thats why it was classed as a major modification.

I also had to tell them when i changed the brake bloke from apple wood lined with leather to oak.

The carb for the engine was an original pheonix type. a bugger to set up but when you got it right was superb.

Andy

Willy Eckerslyke (oss108no snipped-for-privacy@bangor.ac.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Yep - it's equivalent to around 110RON, which is why the timing can be greatly advanced if you're not running it dual-fuel, or if you can remap based on which fuel you're running. It's why most cheap dual-fuel setups are a big compromise.

Of course I have - I'm not a complete prat, and I frequently rail against those who think they've found a way to out-smart insurers by barrack-room sophistry.

-- Kevin Poole

********Use current month and year to reply (e.g. snipped-for-privacy@mainbeam.co.uk)************** B270NZ, SA 1838, TC 8512, GAN3/48519, GAN4/63840, GHD5/324616 Tiltbed car transporter trailer hire - £25/ day. Near Derby. May even tow it for you.

1) I phoned my insurance brokers. I said I had had the DS converted to run on LPG. "Fine", they replied. That was it. 2) It was a specialist installation. I spent a fair time discussing exactly what was going to be done, and how, and why.

Ian