LPG prices in UK

David,

I admit it, I was thinking of LPG'ing Piglet.....and what happens? Typical.

Neil Founder

In message , David French writes

I think you've answered your own question. I would suggest you get a quote then work out the pay-back period based on the mileage you do assuming a 40% saving on your petrol bill. That will give you an indication of the risk involved. Personally, whilst its possible the fuel duty may be increased I cannot see it becoming the same as petrol - that would represent a complete abandonment of current policy on LPG. It is more likely that the grant system for LPG conversions may be abandoned. Its initial purpose was to assist in the creation of a self supporting viable LPG infrastructure and it could be said that that has now been achieved and aid should be directed to other projects.

The catch is, I'm looking at buying a vehicle with LPG from scratch, therefore the concept of a payback period isn't really relevant. In effect, it's all cost, as it's not a conversion I'm looking at. There's no way I'd look at running an LSE at Unleaded prices!

David.

Whatever happens with duty on LPG - unless the Government declares that it's carbon tax policy was completely wrong - it's unlikely to become as expensive as petrol or diesel in the foreseeable future.

I personally expect to see an increase in fuel duty on LPG in the next budget and would not be suprised if it didn't echo the increase for petrol. This will, of course, make the difference in cost per litre between petrol and LPG even greater than it already is. However, I'm no economist - just a pessimistic non-Labour voter :-)

Just out of interest, what would be your alternative transport if you decide not to go this route?

Regards Steve G

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Interesting rumour going around that a litre of petrol, diesel, and LPG will all cost the equivalent of one euro before long, a fixed price idea throughout the EC. The same rumour reckons road fund licence tax will be abolished alongside this move, again, throughout the EC.

I suppose the advantage of this would mean that everybody would be paying the same amount and based on actual usage rather than supposed usage! But I'd be surprised if this actually came about.

Either a 30mpg region Petrol car, or a diesel of some sort. But not a 12mpg petrol!

David.

The Government "promised" not to tax LPG before 2004, but don't worry too much. If they start heavily taxing it like other fuels, they won't meet CO2 emission targets ;)

So would I as it would mean the French would have to stop charging me £110 in road tolls every time I drive to Nice. . . . .

Notwithstanding what some people have been told by their imaginary friends (or was it the little people?) the duty is fixed in the short term. I reckon it'll change, but not as significantly as many fear.

The general economic assessment has been that there is no real market for LPG as the take up has been so poor. The take up has been poor because drivers are not guaranteed to be able to find a filling point when they need one - QED.

The cost-v-environmental impact analysis is perhaps more of an incentive. I originally converted Grumble as (at the time) a thumping great 3.5L V8 (eh, them were the days) gave me the uncomfortable feeling of being an environmental vandal. Having said that, the conversion paid for itself in 6 months.

If I were to look at buying another new vehicle I'd make LPG, or 'duel fuel' really, for the reasons above high on my list. I'd doubt you'll save zillions in the long term, but you'll feel slightly happier, and have a smug, gloating look on your face whilst filling up - and also when you end up telling people it's pretty 'clean' :-)

Martyn

Can't see this happening here in the UK as it means the Gov't relinquishing control on taxes and excise duty.

Can you imagine how much VAT and income tax would have to go up to compensate for the loss in revenue? Doesn't bear thinking about!

Italians would be pleased to see road fund licenses abolished. According to some figures produced by the AA about 18 months ago a 3.9 V8 Discovery was about £1000 per year over there!

Regards Steve G

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About the same as Ireland then! :-(

Malcolm.

Which seems excessive, but then the fuel's quite a bit cheaper over there anyway, isn't it? (Haven't been there for a few years).

Mind you, the non-motorway roads in France are a nicer drive than the autoroutes, except for the juggernauts that are there for the same reason as Julian points out above :-)

Which is why they have left hand drive 2.0 Mpi powered 90's there.

The Irish would also be glad, for similar reasons! Road tax is over 1000 Euro (as far as I know) for anything over 3 litres, engine size. Which is why they don't market the V8 engine there anymore! If the next Discovery's diesel engine really is going to be 3 litre they won't sell many there.

On or around Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:31:52 +0100, Llandrovers! enlightened us thusly:

in this country that'd make for a reduction in the price of petrol and diesel... can't see the government fancying that idea.

and taxing purely on fuel usage is not very fair, either. People living in out-of-the-way places where the property is cheap need a car to get around and do shopping and go to work etc., 'cos there's no viable public transport, so end up paying lots more than the types living in town where there is public transport and driving their ickle darlings a mile to school.

Actually, I reckon the existing system isn't so bad, and in fact, I'd prefer a bit more of it on the annual fee and a bit less on fuel. Most people who do a lot of miles have a good reason for so doing, such as work or to support a business etc., and at present they're subsidising the ones who want a car for the freedom of choice thing rather than using buses etc. (fair enough) but only actually do a relatively low mileage.

to put it in perspective: currently, by running on very-low-duty fuel, I pay about 5.29p/l fuel tax; I calculate that in doing the school run (which is one of my sources of income) I pay about £290 per year in fuel tax, and £165 in annual road fund licence.

If I ran an equivalent diesel vehicle, as most people would, I'd pay something close to £1300 in fuel tax for the same job; although my actual expenditure overall wouldn't be a lot more.

If the fuel tax were reduced and the annual fees increased, then there'd be less penalty on high-mileage fuel users who have a good reason for doing that mileage (travelling salesmen for example, whose job requires it) and more penalty on the people who have a car 'cos they want one, cos it's more pleasant than riding the bus, or more convenient, or simply to pose around in.

Of course, the types who do a high mileage just posing around are gonna get off more lightly, but the number who do serious mileages (20K per annum plus) just for pleasure is relatively small.

reducing the fuel tax would also have a benefit in reducing transport overhead on all goods. Start looking at the amount of fuel tax an artic pays, doing maybe 9 mpg on average and perhaps 50K miles pa, you come out with well over 13 grand in fuel tax...

The lpg is about the same as I pay here but they mix some butane into the propane so I get a couple more mpg usually.

Also best to stick to autoroutes around lunch time (say 10.30 to 3pm!) as drink-driving still sems to be a way of life in rural France!

F*ck the Government (in this particular case)!

True, but on the other hand if one chooses to live in the countryside then it is to be expected that public transport is going to be limited in such areas. In many cases the roads in those areas are not suited to buses (more suitable for Land Rovers in the first place!). But the theory that the more a road is used the more you pay makes sense to me in a number of ways. Obviously, there'd need to be no road tolls in addition........

But wouldn't it be fairer for the price of fuel to be fixed at the pumps? There is a tremendous difference between prices in a most peculiar fashion these days - it seems to be most expensive near the oil terminals!

And if there was no road tax, then surely those who don't use the car much won't suffer, and those who do, if the price is kept to a reasonable level, won't notice much difference either.

Which brings us to another interesting point - do the parents of the kids on your school run pay anything towards the costs of the run or is it entirely council-funded? Again, if living in rural countryside with kids, and no school nearby, it would be reasonable to expect that it would cost something to get the kids to the nearest point of education?

The rumour does make sense from the point of view of the more you use the roads the more you pay, and therefore the more money there is to maintain the road in the first place, especially if all the foreigners (and especially foreign trucks) are also contributing.

I used to fill the Discovery's tank with diesel (literally right to the brim) in Rosslare before getting on the ferry for Fishguard. I could get all the way across the UK (like to Portsmouth or Harwich or wherever) without needing to fill up again! That¹s 600 miles of motoring on UK roads without contributing a single penny to their upkeep!

In the short term I can say that locally (NE Bristol) LPG prices are falling weekly and this appears to be competition driven. Ffilling up at ASDA Wal-Mart this morning I had to look twice to make sure the pump was right - 31.9p/ltr! 60ltrs and change from 20 quid ... Oh happy days :-))

Regards Steve G

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People who live in towns often need a car to get around as well Austin, My journey to work is 20 miles and takes 30 mins in a car. to do it by publice transport I need to get two trains and a bus and it takes between one and a half hours to two hours. Shops are concentrated in out of town shopping centres which you can get to on public transport but it's hard carrying the weekly or monthly shop home on a bus. Also we don't also drive our kids to school some of us actually walk them (well my wife does :-) ).

One of the major benefits of putting the tax on fuel is that it's harder to dodge paying it. I really don't see why people shouldn't pay for how much they use the roads.

The biggest problem with the RFL is the disgracefully low percentage that is spent on the roads.

Cheers

Bill

On or around Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:56:37 GMT, SteveG enlightened us thusly:

git. That's getting on for a penny a litre less than I get it buying about