for pictures. my wife had just left a stop sign and was driving approximately 30mph in a
35mph zone on a city street. a truck pulling out of a bank parking lot somehow "didnt see" my wife in her quad cab long bed 1 ton truck and he t-boned her. my wife and the kids are all fine, my son who was sitting at the door that got directly whacked never even stopped playing his video game.
as you can see the door is crushed, the bed is crushed, and the pillar that goes between the back of the door and the bed is also crushed. to say im "angry" would be an understatement. her truck that stickered for nearly $45,000 has just been devalued. when it comes time to trade or sell, carfax will show its been wrecked and you know what that does to the value of a vehicle.
what i really dont understand is that the highway patrolman didnt write the driver of the other truck a ticket for anything. it was clearly his fault, he claimed the sun was in his eyes (although my wife had headlights on due to dusk setting in!), he impacted her truck, yet he didnt get a ticket? the reason this concerns me is that im afraid this will hurt our ability to collect from his insurance company, or does this really even matter? i called the highway patrol who told me that they dont determine the fault of an accident....told me that was a misconception about their role. is there something different about montana law or is it that way everywhere?
im also wondering what my realistic rights are here. the pillar between the door and the bed cannot be replaced, and i dont want to continue making a $700 payment on a truck thats been bondo'd.
i have an appointment to see an attorney, but am wondering now what i can expect. i know accidents happen but were it not for his negligence our truck wouldnt be smashed now.
Cop could have cited for a number of things, but chose not to for some reason.
Point of impact usually tells the story. It does in your case. Your truck was clearly more than half way through the intersection, no damage to front fender or door.
They can put in a new panel and pillar I believe.
Each state has differnt regs. The attorney can shed more light on it.
No one was injured. Why do you need an attorney? What law did he break? Did he run a stop sign? Did he run a red light? Was he speeding? If the police did not witness any broken laws or the accident, it is unlikely that they would issue a summons. No one likes bondo. Unless the truck is totalled or you are willing to sell it, get used to it. The pillar has minimal damage that can repaired. Why do you want a new one? Unless you are willing to pay the difference, neither insurance company is required to replace a repairable part. The bank won't care what condition your truck is in. They will still want their payment. I'm pretty sure there is no bondo exclusion in your loan agreement. The sun is usually more of a problem at dawn and dusk. It if was noon and the sun was overhead, the sun is a non-issue. Sorry to sound pesimistic, but accidents happen. Your insurance company should provide you with an attorney if there is any litigation. Why do you have one already? You paid a premium for your insurance company's help during an accident. Ask them these questions. There's no reason to hire an attorney of your own.
depreciation compensation. you ever try to tell/trade a vehicle thats been wrecked?
failure to yield?
speeding in what sense? for the highway speed limit, no. the impact occured where the driveway meets the street, and its determined that he was running an estimated 35 mph. obviously he didnt stop (unless a truck with a loaded 8-horse trailer can accelerate from 0 to 35mph in 5 feet). i dont drive 35 mph through bank parking lots, and dont consider it reasonable for others to either.
and this is why im seeking the advice of an attorney. i will not pay for bondo. it didnt have bondo on it when i bought it, and im not going to settle for it now due to HIS negligence. why should i have to live with bondo due to HIS negligence?
the door and the bed can both be unbolted and replaced. the pillar cannot be replaced without being frankensteined.
i never said i was going to default on my loan. i said i wasnt going to pay for bondo. this is why im getting an attorney. if bondo is "no big deal" then surely they wont mind taking the truck for themselves and reselling it. they can take the hit, i wont.
ill certainly consider a fair depreciation offer. otherwise ill get it through the courts. im not looking for unjust compensation, only realistic loss compensation. nobody is grabbing their neck crying whiplash or asking for one dime of "pain & suffering" (this despite my wife is in moderate pain in her back, but feels it will pass). im only trying to prevent eating depreciation due to the negligence of someone else.
my brother bought a new suburban last year. less than a month later a car ran a light and smacked them. $4800 later the truck was repaired and when he attempted to trade it, the truck was devalued an estimated 30% due to having been wrecked. had he gotten an attorney he could have recovered depreciation compensation.....since he didnt, hes stuck with a truck he no longer wants because he owes WAY more on it than it will sell for now thanks to the negligence of someone else. this is why im trying to protect my interests now. my insurance company said to let them see what they can resolve before i seek outside counsel, but consultations are free.
many thanks. this is exactly why my wife is driving a 1 ton truck instead of the cute-ute that she originally wanted.
my insurance company said its irrelevant. looking at the pictures and reading the accident report, my insurance company assured me that fault is not in question so the ticketing is apparently irrelevant.
wasnt even an intersection of streets, it was a parking lot driveway that he came through without stopping.
If the attorney is free, then I see why you're going that route. If you want to get reimbursed for depreciation, I'm guessing that a litigation on your own will be the only way. I'm sure that insurance policies have language to prevent them from having to litigate depreciation because if they didn't, everyone involved in accidents would be seeking depreciation compensation. Good luck with this nightmare. John
I am glad to hear that your family is uninjured. Count your blessings there. BTW, keep my name out of it :-)
The truck is far from wrecked and in all honesty, how many people really use car fax anyway. Unless you plan on dumping it in the next few years, the possible devaluation from carfax would be minimal to non-existant.
What exactly is the officer going to give him a ticket for? At best, he could have given him a ticket for failure to yield right of way but in order to do that, he would have to believe that the truck driver saw your wife and pulled out anyway and we both know that didn't happen and the conditions at hand (as described by you) makes what he said believable. It was an accident, simple as that.
It is not up to the police to determine who is at fault. That is up to the insurance companies and if necessary, the legal system. The duty of the police is to report the facts involved in the accident and issue citations for any laws that were broken which may have lead to the collision. Despite the no-fault garbage that some states like to tout, the fault is usually attributed to the one who hit the other unless the one hit was cited for a moving violation that could influence the situation such as speeding, failure to yield right of way, careless driving.... It is obvious that your wife is the one that was hit and since she was not cited for any moving violations, the fault is clearly on the one who hit her and you will have no problem collecting from his insurance. They know that if they fight it, that they will lose and that would cost them much more money and money is the game with insurance.
I am surprised to hear you say this. Unless you think that the cab was forged out of a single piece of metal, it most certainly can be replaced and you as a professional welder should know this. While true that it does not unbolt, it can be cut away and a new one welded into place, just like the original one was. As you can see, this is a structural component of the cab and the amount of damage to it makes it appear to be irreparable so filler will not be an issue except possibly where the new one is welded in. As for the bank or lending institution, it is not their concern what happens to the vehicle, only that they get the money that they lent you along with the interest that you agreed to.
I hope that your initial consultation is free or you can expect a bill. All he or his insurance is responsible for is the repairs to your vehicle. When you are on the road, you by default assume some risk and you should be grateful that your wife and family was not injured and to look to make sure that the truck is repaired properly. There is little that an attorney can do for you here other than cost you money.
Maybe that trailer and load kept him from being able to stop.
Even if your wife thinks it will "pass", IMO, you would be a fool not to, at the very least, document this pain by a visit to either a doctor or the ER.
My wife got rear-ended while sitting at a stop light. It wasn't a severe crash, but enough that she did suffer some neck pain. She ignored it. Eventually her condition got worse and it was hell going back to get the other driver's insurance company to pay. IIRC, she ended up going through workman's comp insurance to cover medical treatments. She was working at the time of the accident.
That was 23 years ago, she is still suffering from the damage done in that tiny little accident and it's contiuned to worsen.
the rule of law is interesting. philosphically, police do not determine who is at fault at an accident scene. police are authorized to issue tickets for driving infractions that they did not see if they are investigating an accident. many states however require that those violations be "related" to the accident, but not all.
so, in theory, the police could respond to the accident, issue several cites for violations to driver a, but the insurance companies could later decide that driver b was at fault. not likely, but that can happen and sometimes does.
realistically, it does help to have the police issue citations for infractions that led to the accident. it helps your cause should there be a later dispute with the insurance companies and helps your case years later if applying for new insurance to show that it was not your fault. why don't police cite? two main reasons, one they feel sorry for the drivers due to the injuries and/or damage already present and two, laziness. personally, i would want cites issued. i mean, how can police justify issuing you a ticket for something that didn't cause an accident but could have, when they don't issue a citation for the same violation that did cause an accident????
the police officer only has to prove that the driver did not yield to the other driver. intent has nothing to do with it. the law requires that a driver yield to all vehicles that are close enough to be a hazzard. that would appear to be the case here since he hit the other car.
traffic infractions are called malem prohibitum (my latin isn't great). that means they are wrong because the State says they are. no intent required. ignorance is no excuse.
criminal laws are malem in se (again, my latin really sucks) which means they are wrong in themselves and some degree of intent is required to violate those.
Simply because he is dealing with an insurance company is a good enough reason to hire an attorney.
If the guy hit Nate's truck, unless Nate's wife ran a red light, the other driver clearly was proceeding when he couldn't see anything. Thats careless driving on some level.
Bullshit. In PA, someone gets a summons, if not both drivers.
Rubbish. A proper body shop will repair with as little filler as possible.
More crap. One, you don't know the damage, two, it may well be that the policy Nate bought requires replacement.
That wasn't his point.
Simply put, the attorney works for the person/company paying the fee. Thus, Nate should have an attorney of his own, not just one that the insurance company pays for.
I don't get how anyone figures that damage is "far from wrecked". Thats about $3-5000 in damage, depending on how the paint shop goes about matching the paint.
And yes, carfax is a fairly popular source on cars, I see requests for them online, and printouts from them on used car lots.
Ok, so in one paragraph, you go from the cops having no determination in placing fault, to having all the determination in finding fault.
As usual, you are spinning before even getting a reply.
That sounds like paranoia to me and will put the insurance company on the defensive for no valid reason.
LOL, you are kidding, right?!?!?!
Probably becaue the towns in PA are so poor, that they need any possible source of income, including bogus traffic tickets.
Considering the pillar is a primary component of the structural integrity of the cab and actually appears to have significant damage, it will probably need to be replaced regardless of the policy he has and his policy really doesn't matter unless he intends to make a claim against he own insurance.
While you are correct, I doubt that he will really need one or that one would do him any good.
One side of the truck is messed up but it appears that the doors still work and the truck is still drivable and fully usable. Hell, there wasn't even any glass broken. While it may look like crap right now, it actually requires no repairs to be operational and cannot be considered wrecked.
Like I said, how many potential buyers really use it and the damage here is not serious, ugly, but not serious. Unless he plans on trading it in the next year or so, or sell it privately for top dollar, he should have no problem.
LOL, you do make me laugh. They report the facts, nothing more. Those facts also include any traffic violations that the drivers may have done that may or may not influence the outcome but it is not their responsibility to be judge and jury. I have said nothing different despite you twisted Maxland spin.
When I got rear ended in my 3500 a few months ago, the cop didn't write the other guy a ticket either. The cop explained that since there was more than $500 damage (Totaled the other guys Taurus, bent my rear bumper to the tune of $1800), he had to write an accident report in which he fixed the blame on the other driver which satisfied the insurance company requirement.
He didn't write a ticket even though the other guy was following too closely. His reasoning was that "since the insurance company will take care of it, the judge will dismiss the case. In the end, it will end up costing both of you a day off of work to sit in court for a dismissed ticket."
I wouldn't have minded so much if the guy hadn't been whining about the fact that it would be his second ticket in twelve days!
Nate, I'm truly glad that none of your family is injured. Scared the shit out of them--probably, but not hurt.
The truck is metal and can be fixed. The important thing here is that thirty years from now, are you gonna be mad that you lost a couple of thousand on the truck or that your family didn't get hurt??
Don't want to piss ya off, but I tend to put things into perspective.
Sorry to hear about the accident, but glad to hear everyone is OK.
Unfortunately theres no real way to determine how much value (if any) is lost unless you have 2 identical vehicles with the same equipment and mileage in the same area that resell for different prices after the same amount of time on the market. On a properly repaired vehicle, the diminution of value is not usually very much at all. On a collectors car, it can be great, and those vehicles usually pay extra for a different kind of insurance coverage. Here's a recent case concerning diminution of value. Different states look at this differently, but recently the Indiana Supreme court says it's not covered in Indiana;
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There's also a website that looks at several states and how they stand on diminished value claims;
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I worked in the claims department for 5 years for a major insurance company (just the property damage area, not medical). We used the police report only to gather factual information, like drivers names, VIN data, distance from intersections, passenger names, etc. If the police officer witnessed the accident, we would take his statement under consideration along with other witness statements to help us determine fault. Most police officers will not write a summons unless they witnessed or can prove that a law was violated. If they didn't see the accident, it's always a "he said, she said" scenario, so they are unwilling to write a ticket/summons unless the violation is obvious (tires with no tread, no inspection sticker, no proof of insurance, etc). It could have been that the other vehicle was inching out into the highway trying to see around parked trucks when the collision occurred, the police officer won't know that. Fault will be determined by the insurance agents based on witness statements and impact location and damage, plus types of roads or driveways, etc. Most states now require the vehicles to be moved out of the traffic lanes before the police even get there these days, unless an injury or fatality ids involved, so the police might not even see what the position of the vehicles was.
Your rights are to have the vehicle repaired to the condition it was in prior to the accident. There are variations in different states about whether or not aftermarket parts can be used, but your insurance company will probably send you information about that once you file your claim. The vehicle will be repaired (not replaced) unless they determine the repairs might exceed the vehicles value (total loss). Based on the value you mentioned for the truck, and the relatively small amount of damage (it always seems worse to the owner) there's no doubt that the vehicle is repairable.
It never hurts to get a free consultation, but keep in mind that if the attorney is able to get an extra payment for diminution of value, the extra payment you get might be less than what the lawyer collects from you. Ask your agent about diminution of value, they should be able to fill you in. I'd recommend letting your own company handle your claim, and through a preferred repair facility if your happy with that facility. Preferred facilities usually offer some extra benefits like no delays for estimates, lifetime guarantees on the repairs/paint job, and sometimes lower deductibles if you have to pay a deductible. Many states allow your company to waive your deductible if it's obvious the other person is at fault and they have insurance (sometimes a police report needs to be written). That would mean that YOUR company will take care of you and do everything (within the limits of your coverage) to get reimbursement from the other company. It has to be obvious that the other person was more at fault than your wife, though. They have to consider what the other driver did to avoid the accident, and also what your wife could have done to avoid the accident. If you do decide to use an attorney, your insurance company might not be able to help you with the claim because that action could affect their ability to collect damages on your behalf. Make sure you read your policy before you make that decision, it gives all the warnings and potential exclusions in there. You really need to contact your agent to go over your coverage and what the rules of your particular state are, since all states differ in how they determine negligence and payments.
In NC (Raleigh anyway) they don't write citation's either unless there is some sort of personal injury. They will write up a report and indicate who appeared to be at fault however.
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