amsoil - good or bad?

Yes, like that is going to happen...

I don't really care what others want to do either, except when it effects me, or mine. Just like drunks, pot heads and drug addicts quickly reach the point where there is no line between weekend use and everyday use. Eventually nothing else maters except using their drugs... That is where the problems start.

An Oregon lawmaker Kelley Wirth indicted on meth possession charge.

NM Judge Arrested For Cocaine Lawyer Arrested in Drug Sweep Lawyer suspended over drug use Las Vegas Police: Officer Arrested, Faces Felony Drug Police Officer Arrested in Pine Bluff Drug Raid Police Officer Arrested For Falsifying Oxycontin Prescriptions Clackamas County Sheriff's deputy, David Verbos, 36, is accused in the indictment of holding-up the Mid Valley Bank located in Wilsonville as well as armed robberies at various area stores including the pharmacies at the McMinnville Bi-Mart and Wilsonville Target stores as well as a quick-cash outlet in Newberg. Sheriff Sergeant Arrested and Fired for Drug Theft Oklahoma City Police Officer Arrested On Drug Complaints Union police officer arrested on drug charge

That so broadens the definition of a Pyramid scheme that it becomes meaningless

Not knowing how the payments flow in your example it would seem to be a pyramid gussied up to look like a MLM.

Arthur Dent wrote in article ...

So, you figure the dope that the dope smokes Sunday night is totally cleared from his system on Monday morning, and has absolutely no effect on his motor or reasoning skills while he is working on the brakes of the vehicle in which your wife and kids ride????

Brave man!!!!!

That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point. We agree.

CJB

...

No worse than the bonehead who goes out and gets puking drunk and is so hung-over he can barely remember his own name. You are always going to have people who abuse something whether it it a legally obtained substance such as alcohol or prescription narcotics, or [currently] illegally obtained pharmaceuticals. There is no way of stopping it short of outlawing every single substance that offers a physiological/psychological effect that people seek, and watching every single person 24 hours a day in a strictly controlled police state. And who will watch the watchers (to steal a phrase, and to refer to the previously posted links to articles referencing illegal actions by law enforcement officers)?

Allow legal retail purchases just like alcohol and cigarettes at reasonable prices and your illegal market goes the way of the bootleggers, sure, there are still a few of those around but it isn't really that big a problem. Not only could the massive amounts of tax dollars being spent on investigations and housing prisoners whose only crime is smoking a little dope or snorting some coke be put to a better use (like back in our pockets), but the additional tax revenue gained would offset and allow decreases in other current revenue sources (like personal income taxes and real estate taxes).

We already have laws in place to penalize those whose impaired behavior presents a danger to others, they just need to be enforced even-handedly across the board.

"That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point. We agree. CJB"

and that was the reason for my snake oil comment also

That is probably not true. The XL7500 Product Line is API Certified and available in the latest grades (even for Ford's that spec 5W20). On the other hand, it is not a "true" synthetic. It is one of the faux synthetics like Castrol Syntec (heavily refined petroleum).

Amsoil may be great stuff, but the whole marketing scheme is a giant turn-off. The Amsoil corporate site stays just on the right side of the truth (everything is true if over hyped), but some of the individual dealers who market the stuff don't have much of a grip on reality and don't mind crossing over into the Twilight Zone when hyping the products.

Ed

Way Too Many People Can NOT Partake in Moderation. Even when it is already illegal to partake in the first place.

Just like drunks, pot heads and drug addicts quickly reach the point where there is no line between weekend use and everyday use, or on the job use.

If these "upstanding citizens" can't control themselves, who can?

An Oregon lawmaker Kelley Wirth indicted on meth possession charge.

NM Judge Arrested For Cocaine Lawyer Arrested in Drug Sweep Lawyer suspended over drug use Las Vegas Police: Officer Arrested, Faces Felony Drug Police Officer Arrested in Pine Bluff Drug Raid Police Officer Arrested For Falsifying Oxycontin Prescriptions Clackamas County Sheriff's deputy, David Verbos, 36, is accused in the indictment of holding-up the Mid Valley Bank located in Wilsonville as well as armed robberies at various area stores including the pharmacies at the McMinnville Bi-Mart and Wilsonville Target stores as well as a quick-cash outlet in Newberg. Sheriff Sergeant Arrested and Fired for Drug Theft Oklahoma City Police Officer Arrested On Drug Complaints Union police officer arrested on drug charge

Just because it doesn't meet API specifications does not mean that it cannot be leagues better than it. It is different in that it doesn't conform. It might be a far superior lubricant but if used in an already worn engine it might damage the catilyst. I'm not saying that is the reason for non conformation but it could be, so the 'snake oil' comment is not valid. It is true that conformation and accreditation to API standards prevents snake oil being sold and is therefore a 'good thing' but for oil enthusiasts who may want the very best without compromise then different standards may be more important. Remember that the API have traditionally set the lowest standard for oil below which is unacceptable. Nothing to stop somebody producing a far superior oil though it would be better if the superior oil also passed all parameters required to pass the API standard as well. This would stop any confusion. All standards are a compromise, none more so than the API minimal standards. Amsoil use a different set of compromises for some of their range. Hooray for variety and nonconformity. And I will probably never use their oil.

Huw Huw

Yes it does! It is a meet or exceed specification, it either meets the minimal API specification or it does not, that means it is NOT good enough! Period.

It may be a superior lubricant but may have a technical aspect like too much phosphate or zinc which is above the limit set for emission tests when burnt in significant quantity in a worn engine. That is just one example.

The API is just one standard setting body. There are many others which are less well known such as the ACEA and the Japanese one whose name escapes me plus engine manufactuers own standards such as Mercedes Benz who actually set high performance standards upon which other superior standards are based including the ACEA international ones. Personally I would, as I suspect you would, stick with an oil that meets higher standards as well as API standards rather than use one that does not meet API. Now if I was track racing then many aspects of the API compromise could be ignored and I would have no hesitation in using the Amsoil compromise which is biassed towards performance [or so they claim]. The paradox is that since Amsoil does is not accredited with API certification it is unlikely to meet any higher *official* standard either so no one really knows how good or bad Amsoil really is, except by taking their word for it. I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt by taking their word for it that it is a very good oil but not to the extent that I would use it in any of my vehicles.

I hope that explains how an oil can be excellent without being API accredited and also why I would not generally choose to use it given a choice of other oils that actually meet exceptionally high standards such as mb229.5 which sets the present benchmark and which also meets API lower standards. There is absolutely no point in using this kind of oil [an extended drain ultra high performance oil] whether from Castrol/Shell/Fuchs/vehicleownbrand, unless the potential is exploited in drain interval terms. Anything under 10,000 miles in a temperate climate and you might as well use a good dino oil.

Huw

And therein lies much of my point.

It is not necessarily the substances that are the problem, but the people who abuse them. Simple possession should not be a crime. I don't know how many of those articles apply to abuse, as I haven't read them, but some of the titles are indicative of problems other than the substances. Focus efforts and expense on REAL crimes.

Just in case you're wondering, my "drug" use is generaly limited to caffiene, nicotine and alcohol (and I rarely get drunk). Once in a while, I might get a script for a painkiller but I generally take it at a lesser dose than prescribed and usually don't finish it. I don't smoke pot or snort coke or take any other drugs for recreational use. As a former participant in law enforcement I've even helped to take down a cop or two for drug crimes. I'm not speaking from a position of total ignorance of this particular subject, I'm addressing the overall realities of it.

We've probably drifted too far beyond the charter of this group so, having said that, go ahead and get the last word in if you want to and we'll close this thread out.

I declare this thread closed! Stop! Stop that!!

You don't have that authority or power. Carry on everyone!! Onwards and upwards towards enlightenment ;-)

Huw

I don't know how much money Am Soil costs, but what does a new engine cost? Plenty! So why fool around with something that isn't

*officially* recognized by OEM ? Because you can VOID YOUR WARRANTY with Scamz Oil.

Use Mobil1. Aside from the extended change intervals, you're saving your engine parts from unnecessary wear. So it is said.

Lg

Unfair to call it that but I won't be using it.

A lot is 'said' as you see here and from the type of inference shown when you call Amsoil "Scamz Oil". Most of it is balls. As for Mobil 1 synthetic, most of the product range do not meet any especially high standards apart from the 0w/40 and the 15w/50 viscosity grades. Check out their spec sheets and compare to the other Mobil1 viscosity grades.

Huw

Unfair? There are only 2 things you need to know about Scamz Oil.

#1) They don't/won't/can't compete in the *open market* because? ( they would get their asses kicked off the shelves? )

#2) You void you engine warranty if you use that trash. It isn't reconized by ANY OEM as suitable lubricant for warranty purposes.

Now are you still going to hype the stuff? There's a sucker born every minute.

Lg