Overly broad statement.
visit your local dealer and talk with people who've bought from a dealer.
This whole "ford and gm dealers suck" is irrevelant... it's your LOCAL
dealer who determines your experience... not the opinions or statistics
across the us.
No car or dealer is without fault. The problem is that Detroit has acquired
a bad reputation with a lot of people and those folks are buying elsewhere.
Detroit's ongoing slide in market share keeps going down and Toyota, Honda,
etc. climbs because they are building cars people want to buy. Having good
products is what makes for sales and the better the product the better the
market share. Detroit is still failing and falling. How long can Detroit
continue their losing streak on market share before they implode?
Of course, those of us who do buy reliable japanese autos tend to think that
there is no premium we'd be
paying. The japanese cars tend (not all, but tend) to be very well value
priced. Honestly, for several
years I wondered why people would try to save that little bit of payment a month
to buy a car from an
American manufacturer with a less efficient engine, less efficient tranny, and
an interior and ride
quality that is much, much cheaper than the Honda or Toy. counterpart.
Put another way, the hondas and toyotas are the 'premium' you bring up. the
jap. cars are the middle-
line, value pricing of the auto world. The cheaper american cars tended to
be... just cheaper. But you
get what you pay for.
I have seen it go from people not buying foreign cars
One thing I've learned is that the Japanese manufacturers have been much
better at convincing people to take care of their vehicles. Little things
like fluid changes and other preventive care.
BTW, my mustang just turned over a 130,000 miles last night.
I get 21+mpg's with my 01 Mustang GT convertible. And it's fast, fun
and a good looking white on white on white. In fact it gets as good
mileage if not better then my 06 Mazda 3s with and automatic (slush
box) but it's a nice looking care well built in Japan but don't buy a
dark blue car hard to keep clean.
Man I figured I was gonna have to jump all over you...
Nice, honest post.
True, the difference in average defects per car is small numerically,
but percentage wise the imports such as Ford and GM are far behind the
American cars like Honda and Toyota. Honda averages less than 1
defect per car, while Ford and GM average about 1.3 per car. That is
about 30% more defects.
Like I said you can spend your money wherever you choose, I could not care
less I find it odd you should mention the Lincoln LS. My first domestic
after three Lexus V8s was a 2000 Lincoln LS V8 that I purchased in August of
1999. It cost me around $24,000 less to drive home than the Lexus dealer
wanted for a 1999 Lexus V8, the 2000 Lexus was not yet available. In
October of 2001 I purchased a 2002 Lincoln LS V8 Sport. My total outlay was
around $8,000. I also bought a 2004 for comparable outlay. I bought a 2005
for just $2,000 more than the price of an Avalon V6. I keep the 2004 in
Florida. As with most of my vehicles my Lincolns are still owned by some of
my relatives or friends, the 2000 currently has nearly 110K trouble free
miles on the clock. As with my Lexus', none of the Lincolns were
problematic. The only difference I see is the Lincoln dealer treats me much
better and I can buy a new Lincoln every two years for far less than it was
costing me to buy a new Lexus every two years.
You site retail values listed by Edmonds. You are correct a three year old
V6 Camry is listed at $4,000 more than a V6 Taurus but you forget that a
Camry cost at least $5,000 more to drive home, when new, than the Taurus.
The Taurus actually retains a higher percentage of the original investment
than the Camry. ;)
That's not the whole story. I had a very very tough time selling
my 3 years old GM car. Buyers of used cars, especially in large urban areas,
are only interested in Hondas or Toyotas because they just want
reliable, economical transportation and they "know" that American
cars are bad and Jap cars are good (that's the perception!). In rural areas you
tend to find more American-made vehicles.
Apparently you have never actually gone into the market and obtained a total
drive home priced both have you? One can not compare the price of 4cy Camry
to a Taurus, it does not come with a 4cy. The 4cy Camry is a slug in
mountainous territory. Toyota dealers in this area stock most V6 Camrys for
This is not necessarily true - a bigger displacement engine usually
provides more low to mid range torque, which may or may not be a
significant advantage, depending on your driving style, transmission and
| In other words, Ford (and GM) should do what Chrysler is doign:
| put out RWD cars with powerful engines. How hard can it be?!
Pretty darn hard. What will the price of gasoline be two years from
now? If it is six dollars a gallon or more (which it could be), and
the Asian cars that get 30 mpg and more are speeding off the lots,
while the big RWD cars with powerful engines sit there, someone will
come on USENET and write: "In other words, Ford (and GM) should do
what the Asian marques are doing: put out small cars with great fuel
economy. How hard can it be?!"
john cline ii, who, for the record, drives a large Ford with AWD (that
ought to limit it) which doesn't have a "powerful" engine, but will be
trading for one when they become available, provided we all can afford
and get petrol
Better do a bit of research before you comment on a subject on a subject of
which you apparently have little knowledge, WBMA The domestic auto makers
sell many small and medium sized car today that get great fuel mileage.
American buyers however prefer to buy the safer larger cars and SUVs. GM,
for examples, sells more vehicles in the US that get over 30 MPG than does
You talking about aveo and cobalt fleet sales? I can't think of another GM
model that does over 30MPG, and most of the aveo and cobalts sold are fleet
sales, as individual buyers of econocars are mostly after the corolla/matrix
and civics. OH, I guess if you count the Pontiac VIBE, you might have
something. Too bad that's a Toyota, though. -Dave
You seem to be confused, not only does GM sell more cars to whom ever, than
Toyota, it offers for sale more individual models that get over 30 MPG than
Toyota, search the EPA for the models of each. US buyer look for more than
good mileage in the vehicles they buy. Search the sales figures for the
Vibe and the Matrix you will discover GM sells far more Vibes than Toyota
sells Matrix'. Perhaps more GM buyers, than you realize, look to GM for the
dependable vehicles they want, even in the same basic car. ;)
I have never even come close to the EPA numbers in my '05 Impala, I am
lucky to get 20 MPG in that POS. What is it that American car buyers
are looking for again? It can't be power, handling, refinement, or fuel
economy, because my car has none of them.
Mike Hunter wrote:
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
The EPA figures are estimates based on a controlled test given to all
vehicles for comparison proposes, YOUR mileage may vary depending on how and
were you drive My 2005 Mustang had an EPA highway rating of 25, I can
easily get that driving a steady 75 MPH. My 2006 Zephyr has and EPA of 28,
it will do 33 at a steady 70. My one son bought a small car with a 34 MPG
rating to commute to his new job, a 180 mile round trip over mountainous
interstates. He averaged just 27 MPG because he seldom get into fifth gear.
Eight out of ten Camrys sold in the US have only 4 cy motors. They will not
get as good a mileage as those with a V6 in hilly or mountainous terrain.
Around here Toyota dealers stock mostly V6 Camrys for that reason
I looked at the Zephyr specs and price. For that kind of money you could have
the new Passat, the Maxima, or the Avalon, all much better cars than the Zephyr.
Why would anyone prefer the Zephyr?!
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