Dear Mr. Ford (a modest proposal)

Have you actually priced the two? The larger 500 with its six speed and CVT trannys does quite well.

mike hunt

I never have a problem selling my cars, I seldom need trade. We all know the people in the red states are smarter. ;)

mike hunt

Apparently you have never actually gone into the market and obtained a total drive home priced both have you? One can not compare the price of 4cy Camry to a Taurus, it does not come with a 4cy. The 4cy Camry is a slug in mountainous territory. Toyota dealers in this area stock most V6 Camrys for that reason.

mike hunt

the price difference is NOT $5,000, it's more like $1,600. $1,600

No they are not the same but the differences among them are minuscule. The point I was trying to make is NO manufacture foreign or domestic builds a perfect vehicle, that is why they all have a warranty. No dealer network, foreign or domestic has a lock on perfect dealerships.

I'm tired of hearing in these NG how great import brands are and how bad are the domestics. That simply is a fallacy. When I still owned my fleet service business we serviced thousands of vehicle of just about every brand you can think of every month. Guess what, they all have problems on occasion. None of the brands one can buy today stands out among the rest. The only real difference among them is style and price. No mater where one looks for statistics that is obvious. Rating brands of vehicles on a 'list' will always show one on top, and another on the bottom, but the difference among brands is statistically insignificant. To say I'm never going to by brand 'X' again because I had a bad one, is just as ridiculous as saying others should by brand 'Y' because the one I owned was great..

The best one can hope for, when purchasing any brand, is that the one they buy is not one of the less than 2% that every manufacture build that is problematic. The odd are far more likely you will get one of any brands 98% that are not problematic. Any brand one can buy today will easily go to 200K or more if given the proper preventive maintenance. In the real world a buyer should be more concerned about the drive home price, insurance cost and the cost of replacing the vehicle, among brands rather than worrying about the brand. There is no doubt that at some point your vehicle will need to be repaired if you keep it long enough, so you should look at the difference in parts prices and the shop rates as well . There is no reason to pay a premium price to buy a particular brand hoping that you will get one of the 98%, odds are you will. If you want to go by statistics, go by the most accurate statistic of them all, total sales numbers. There is a reason the Camry is the number one selling car and the F150 is the best selling vehicle. Buyers will not continue to spend their hard earned money year after year on vehicles that for them are problematic. Look on any dealers lot, foreign or domestic, and you will see vehicles from other brands, foreign or domestic, sitting on their lots that the former owners no longer wanted for some reason.

We keep hearing how GM and Ford market share is eroding but the fact is the market is growing almost every year and both GM and Ford are selling more vehicles today than at any time in their history. When GM had around 50% of the market there were only 8,000,000 vehicles sold in the US by around five manufactures.. Today the market is anywhere from seventeen million to nineteen million vehicles annually from over thirty brands and over 175 models. The fact is GM and Ford sell far more than any other brand year after year, period. More buyer must like what the have to offer than any other manufacture.

mike hunt

Simply not true. The difference in interior material quality, design, and fit and finish between my '02 VW GTI and my '05 Impala is significant. The GTI had split folding rear seats. The Impala does not. (this is important to me, as the Impala is a company provided vehicle, and I might occasionally have a need to transport large pieces of equipment as part of my job...) The GTI had heated leather seats, heated mirrors, a rear wiper/washer, and a sunroof. The Impala does not. The GTI handled reasonably well and had awesome acceleration. The Impala does not. In fact, the only things the Impala has that the GTI did not are rear doors, a big trunk, and a (crappy) automatic transaxle.

Guess which car costs more...

This is very true, but the reputation of American (and to be fair, VW) dealerships is crappy service and a consumer-unfriendly attitude. Compare and contrast with the kissing your ass gets at an Infiniti or Lexus dealership, of course those cars have great reputations, people forget about the little problems they've had with them because the dealer gave them a loaner car and fixed the issue for free, with no hassles, and apologizing the whole time.

Sure. But if you were involved with fleet service, you probably only dealt with dealers for warranty work, and even the crappy ones didn't give you the fecal matter that they would give to Joe Average, because they wanted you to buy more cars from them. The average guy, they know he's not buying anything any time soon, he just bought a new car.

and reliability, performance, handling, and dealer service... especially dealer service...

nate

One thing I've learned is that the Japanese manufacturers have been much better at convincing people to take care of their vehicles. Little things like fluid changes and other preventive care.

BTW, my mustang just turned over a 130,000 miles last night.

Huh?! One can get a 280 hp base Avalon for around $26,000. Far more power than the Lincoln, far better quality and resale value. It is a no-brainer, really.

It may be a fallacy in many cases, but the perception is that Jap cars are more reliable and of better quality. That helps a lot when you want to sell your used Honda or Acura or Toyota.

Besides, lots of GM and Ford cars are uninspired and boring. On the contrary, most European cars and some Japanese cars (Subarus, Infinitis, etc) are quite desirable.

This is not necessarily true - a bigger displacement engine usually provides more low to mid range torque, which may or may not be a significant advantage, depending on your driving style, transmission and other conditions.

"N8N" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Sorry... did you seriously lump all American dealerships, such as ford, pontiac, mercury, chevy, dodge, plymouth (defunct), chrysler, etc. and compare them straight faced to Lexus and Infiniti??

Just not a realistic comparison.

Oooh ooh! Don't forget that my Honda has devalued less in 3 years than my Fords did from driving off the lot.

Dave

Well, it isn't a realistic comparison but Ford, Pontiac, Mercury, etc, would LIKE you to believe their dealerships will treat you that special. Remember the much-ballyhooed Chrysler 5-Star dealership program? I don't know if that program's still going but the nearest Chrysler dealer was a 5-Star dealer and they were a bunch of morons who'd cut their own throats if it would help them screw the customer. I went in to look a used car and the salesman made me an offer that was frankly illegal.

Service at the Toyota dealer I use isn't exactly cheap but they do treat you like visiting royalty whenn you show up with your Toyota. And they offer good, solid low prices with no switcheroos, no add-ons and no shenanigans.

The differences are far from miniscule. I have owned at one time or another: Beetle, VW Bus, Golf, Escort, Buick, Chrysler Town & Country Wagon, Geo Metro (3 cylinders & 1.0 liter-lots of fun around town), Chevy Prizm (Corolla). There really were significant differences in the fit and finish and in dealer treatment of the customer (me). The import dealer(s) was a

Really, then how come the Toyota dealer wanted $34,000 for a top of the line Avalon Have actually gone into the market and tried to buy a new vehicle lately? LOL

mike hunt

Bur alas in three years the domestics return a higher percentage of their drive home price than does you Honda. ;)

mile hunt

Personal opinions aside, the number one rated dealerships for customer service, according to J D Powers, is Lincoln. Toyota dealerships are way down on their list. ;)

mike hunt

You dont have to buy a top of the line Avalon. The base one is just fine, it just doesnt have the luxury options.

If that is the case why does GM and Ford sell two and three times as many vehicles as any of the import brands? ;)

mike hunt

That is precisely why we bought the Zephyr, it comes standard with all of the luxury and safety equipment that my wife wanted. ;)

mike hunt