Ford club wagon van need help with engine repair

Do you have power to the coil?

Simple check with a 12v circuit tester or light bulb

Some methodical troubleshooting will be in order. If you don't have one, buy a test light (a few bucks at any auto parts store). Turn ignition on and check that you have +12V at the positive (usually red) primary coil terminal. If no light there, you have a bad ignition switch or a bad connection somewhere. OK so far? move the test light to the negative side of the primary coil (green or some such) and have an assistant crank the engine. The light should flicker at four times per revolution rate. If it's flickering, suspect the high voltage winding on the coil or the high voltage wire from the coil to the distributor. If it's steady, you have a bad ignition module, bad connection to the ignition module, or (less likely) bad pickup in the distributor. If no light on that side, disconnect the wire to the negative side and probe that end of the coil with ignition on (if it's a single connector, you may need to improvise a piece of wire to connect the positive side of the coil with the connector removed). Still no light = bad coil (open primary). There are more possibilities, but hope this helps a bit.

"s_sperformance" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...

Yes, I have power in and out of the coil. It was tested and had good spark. Still at a loss. Thanks.

I have tested as you have listed here and I get a steady light with the ignition on and a ground with the ignition off. I have just put in another new ignition module and pickup just in case but still , no spark!!What might those other possibilities be?? Thanks.

On 29 Nov 2005, you wrote in alt.autos.ford:

mm wonder what would happen if you pulled the spout plug?

Worth a shot, though SPOUT would have to be shorted to ground or to B+ to make it kill ignition altogether. But I am not yet convinced that it's not the HV side. What is the negative side of the coil doing when cranking? On? Off? Or flickering (as it should)?

The neg side lights but, dims when cranked.Not really flickering. This thing has Everyone baffled! Thanks for your assist.Can you explain the SPOUT procedure.

Better explaination....with the ignition off,the B side is grounded. When you crank the ignition, it's positive.The light comes on steady but dims, it doesn't really flicker.Thanks again.

Better explaination....with the ignition off,the B side is grounded. When you crank the ignition, it's positive.The light comes on steady but dims, it doesn't really flicker.Thanks again.

Seems that you have a problem in the primary (low voltage side) ignition circuit.

The way the circuit works is that a magnetic field is built in the coil by running current through the primary and collapses just before the spark should occur. The collapsing field induces a high voltage in the secondary and an arc (spark) in the combustion chamber dissipates the stored magnetic energy. Then the field builds up again, until the next firing. This cycling is done by the ignition module that acts like a switch; it grounds the negative side of the coil to close the circuit and opens it to break the current flow and collapse the magnetic field. When the current is flowing, the negative side of the coil is at ground potential, and the test light will be off. When the module opens the circuit, the voltage at the negative side of the coil is the same as at the positive (+ 12V), and the light is briefly on. This will happen too fast for you to see if the engine is running, but should be visible when cranking. If the car has a tacho, you should see the needle bouncing around a bit when cranking - the instrument is connected to the same spot on the coil. If the needle does not move, it's just another indication that the primary circuit is not working.

If the light remains steady, the module is not doing its job for one reason or another (the dimming is probably just the battery voltage dropping because of the starter load). If you ever worked on the old-style ignition with points, the module does what the points used to do, and the basic troubleshooting idea is the same...

SPOUT is a single wire, going from the engine computer to the ignition module. There is a connector on it that you can unplug. This line carries a variable timing signal from the computer. If you disconnect it, the timing becomes fixed, controlled just by the ignition module and is independent of RPM or load. They provided a connector on this line, so you can disconnect it for timing the distributor (more-or-less the same idea as disconnecting the vacuum advance on the old style ignition). I don't have the detailed schematic in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the circuit is not bullet-proof, and a short somewhere along the SPOUT line (including a defective computer) will stop the module from working and kill the ignition altogether. Hence Backyard's idea to try with SPOUT disconnected. You can't drive like that, but the engine should start and run if that's the only problem.

Hope this long-winded story helps you. If you are still baffled, it's probably time to donate a few bucks to your friendly auto mechanic. For one thing, it's much easier to diagnose those things with better tools, like a DVM and an oscilloscope...

Good Luck

Unfortunately I don't have the pinout or wire colors for the ICM (I believe it is remote mounted on this vehicle), but also check for power at the ICM, and PIP, SPOUT signals (those should be between 3 and 8.5 volts AC during crank)

The diagnostic flow chart leads to coil harness checks then checking the grounds at the ICM and the CMP sensor. I can scan the flowcharts but they refer to test harness and breakout box locations.

There is a "No start with SPOUT disconnected" routine,. I'm not sure if that's what other posters are referring to....