It has a Ford ESPP (premium care) until 75k miles. This is Ford's most inclusive (and expensive) warranty)
Recently the truck developed a "clunk" in the front end when deflecting the wheel at slow speeds. Particularly when switching from forward to reverse, or vice versa.
So the truck went into Ford. Ford found that the cross member is loose and it needs to be resecured to the truck, via removing the loose rivets, bolting it down, and adding some sort of glue to something. They also need to allign the truck.
There is a TSB on this issue: Bulletin No: 15502 Summary Description: CONCERNS WITH POP/CLUNK/CLICK NOISE FROM THE FRONT SUSPENSION WHEN MAKING LOW-SPEED TURNS IN FORWARD OR REVERSE GEARS.
Ford says that this is *NOT* covered by the ESPP - even premium care, because this sort of fix is an "adjustment" of the crossmember. Nevermind the fact that crossmembers are not made to be adjusted. They are saying that if the crossmember was to be replaced, that such would be covered.
From what I can read in regard to the specifics of the warranty, the following is covered: "Front suspension - Ball Joints (Upper and Lower) Control Arms (Upper and Lower) Control Arm Shafts and Bushings Kingpins and Bushings Linkage and Bushings Load Leveler Suspension System MacPherson Struts (Front and Rear) Spindle and Spindle Supports Springs Stabilizer Bar Tie Rods"
What is NOT covered: "Mechanical Service adjustments and cleaning, battery and cables, belts and hoses, brakes (front hub, drums, shoes, linings, disc rotors, pads), coolant, exhaust system (includes catalytic converter), filters, fluids, lubricants, lights (bulbs, sealed beam, lenses), manual clutch disc, shock absorbers, spark plugs and wires, squeaks and rattles, tires, tune-ups, wheel balancing, wheel alignment, wiper blades, wheel studs, and compressed natural gas/liquid propane fuel system components. "
I believe the the dealer is saying the removing a crossmember and having to reattach is a "service adjustment". I might let this fly if the crossmember was made to be removed or adjusted, but we all know that this might as well be a piece of the frame!
Make : FORD Model : F150 Year : 2001 Service Bulletin Num : 15502 Date of Bulletin: DEC 01, 2001 NHTSA Item Number: 630612 Component: SUSPENSION:FRONT Summary: CONCERNS WITH POP/CLUNK/CLICK NOISE FROM THE FRONT SUSPENSION WHEN MAKING LOW-SPEED TURNS IN FORWARD OR REVERSE GEARS. *TT
I'm not sure which website you're checking, but I'm checking with:
formatting link
year: 2001 make: Ford model: F-150 component: front suspension
Or simply search for the NHTSA item number: 630612
Details: Make : FORD Model : F150 Year : 2001 Service Bulletin Num : 15502 Date of Bulletin: DEC 01, 2001 NHTSA Item Number: 630612 Component: SUSPENSION:FRONT Summary: CONCERNS WITH POP/CLUNK/CLICK NOISE FROM THE FRONT SUSPENSION WHEN MAKING LOW-SPEED TURNS IN FORWARD OR REVERSE GEARS. *TT Check to Request Research. Submit below.
Maybe I don't understand this "fix" correctly, but I don't see how a frame-based cross member can be "adjusted". Removing it, bolting it back on, and gluing some other component can hardly be called "adjustment" in my book.
Most expensive insurance policy. It is not really a warranty.
I would calmly ask to speak to the shop foreman. I would be extremely polite (you get more bees with honey than vinegar or something like that). Don't forget to kindly mention the TSB (by number).
Explain that you feel that this is not an adjustment and that it should be covered by the warranty.
If you don't get any satisfaction, ask to get the factory rep's contact info and politely contact the factory rep. If that doesn't work, send a kindly worded letter to Bill Ford (the pres. of Ford).
Where does it say anything about a frame concern? Why did you not get ALL the bulletin? That would be far more helpful than just a summery title and is vague at best. Those are not TSB or recall numbers issued by Ford. Below are all the TSB's for that rear and model vehicle that are issued by Ford, these are from Ford, gotten from Ford's dealership personal only web site. Pick the one that your think fits your concern.
Technical Service Bulletins 2001 F-SERIES - US (English)
04-07-01 a.. ELECTRICAL - WARNING INDICATORS - PARKING AID - REVERSE SENSING SYSTEM (RSS) AND FORWARD SENSING SYSTEM (FSS) - FALSE ACTIVATION OF WARNING TONE - SERVICE TIPS
03-21-49 a.. DRIVEABILITY - LOSS OF POWER AND EXTERNAL TURBO OIL LEAK - 7.3L DIESEL b.. ENGINE - 7.3L DIESEL - LOSS OF POWER AND EXTERNAL TURBO OIL LEAK c.. NOISE - EXHAUST NOISE FROM TURBO - 7.3L DIESEL
03-21-44 a.. NO START - STARTER MOTOR GEAR TEETH DAMAGE - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 7.3L DIESEL ENGINE - MEXICO PRODUCED VEHICLES ONLY b.. ENGINE - 7.3L DIESEL - NO START - STARTER MOTOR GEAR TEETH DAMAGE - MEXICO PRODUCED VEHICLES ONLY c.. NOISE - STARTER MOTOR GEAR TEETH DAMAGE - MEXICO PRODUCED VEHICLES ONLY
03-21-43 a.. ENGINE - 7.3L - LOW OIL PRESSURE - CUAUTITLAN BUILT VEHICLES ONLY - EQUIPPED WITH 7.3L POWERSTROKE DIESEL ENGINE - ENGINE SERIAL NUMBERS (ESN) BETWEEN 5000000 AND 5008850 ONLY
03-21-42 a.. LACK OF POWER - UNDER A LOAD, AT CRUISE OR ON ACCELERATION - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 7.3L DIT ENGINE ONLY - PRODUCED BEFORE
11/25/2000 ONLY b.. ENGINE - 7.3L DIT - LACK OF POWER UNDER A LOAD, AT CRUISE OR ON ACCELERATION - VEHICLES PRODUCED BEFORE 11/25/2000 ONLY
03-21-41 a.. DRIVEABILITY - NO START, LOSS OF POWER OR ROUGH IDLE - DURING EXTREME COLD WEATHER OPERATION - FUEL GELLING - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH
7.3L ENGINE b.. FUEL - NO START, LOSS OF POWER OR ROUGH IDLE - DURING EXTREME COLD WEATHER OPERATION - FUEL GELLING - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 7.3L ENGINE
02-16-04 a.. FUEL SYSTEM - FUEL PUMP "WHINING"/"BUZZING" NOISE COMES THROUGH ENTERTAINMENT OR TWO-WAY RADIO SPEAKER b.. RADIO - ENTERTAINMENT OR TWO-WAY COMMUNICATION - "WHINING"/"BUZZING" NOISE IN SPEAKERS CAUSED BY FUEL PUMP c.. NOISE - "WHINING"/"BUZZING" - COMES THROUGH SPEAKERS OF ENTERTAINMENT OR TWO-WAY RADIO
02-14-01 a.. SUSPENSION - SQUEAK NOISE FROM REAR LEAF SPRINGS - REPLACEMENT REAR LEAF SPRING TIP LINER - VEHICLES PRODUCED BEFORE 10/15/01 b.. NOISE - SQUEAK NOISE FROM REAR LEAF SPRINGS - REPLACEMENT REAR LEAF SPRING TIP LINER - VEHICLES PRODUCED BEFORE 10/15/01
02-09-09 a.. LOSS OF POWER - WHILE DRIVING IN RAIN - F-53 STRIPPED CHASSIS VEHICLES WITH 6.8L ENGINE BUILT THROUGH 2/5/2001 b.. STUMBLE - WHILE DRIVING IN RAIN - F-53 STRIPPED CHASSIS VEHICLES WITH 6.8L ENGINE BUILT THROUGH 2/5/2001
02-02-01 a.. DRIVEABILITY - LOW POWER CONDITION WHILE IN REVERSE GEAR - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 6.8L 2V ENGINE, 4R100 TRANSMISSION AND PTO OPTION ONLY b.. TRANSMISSION - 4R100 - LOW POWER CONDITION WHILE IN REVERSE GEAR - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 6.8L 2V ENGINE, 4R100 TRANSMISSION AND PTO OPTION ONLY
02-01-08 a.. DRIVEABILITY - BI-FUEL - NO START IN ALT FUEL MODE - ALT FUEL SWITCH INDICATOR ON THEN OFF WHILE CRANKING - SOLENOID TANK VALVE COIL NOW AVAILABLE SEPARATELY FOR SERVICE
01-23-06 a.. ENGINE COOLANT - PROPYLENE GLYCOL - FORD MOTOR COMPANY POSITION ON ENGINE COOLANTS MADE FROM PROPYLENE GLYCOL b.. ENGINE COOLANT - PROPYLENE GLYCOL-BASED - FORD MOTOR COMPANY POSITION ON PROPYLENE GLYCOL-BASED ENGINE COOLANTS
01-17-03 a.. VIBRATION - DRIVELINE DRONE OR VIBRATION - FELT AT
80-96 KM/H (50-60 MPH) - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 228 INCH WHEELBASE AND 6.8L ENGINE ONLY
01-13-05 a.. TRANSMISSION - 4R100 - DELAYED OR NO 2ND GEAR - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES P0781, P0755 AND/OR P0756 - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH
4R100 TRANSMISSION WITH TRANSMISSION BUILD DATES BETWEEN 7/27/2000 AND 3/23/2001 ONLY
01-10-01 a.. DRIVEABILITY - BI-FUEL - PARAMETER IDENTIFICATION DATA (PID) INPUT AND OUTPUT INFORMATION - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 5.4L OR 6.8L BI-FUEL ENGINE ONLY
01-08-07 a.. DRIVEABILITY - BI-FUEL - INTERMITTENT STARTING OR DRIVEABLITY WIRE HARNESS SERVICE TIPS - IN BI-FUEL OR GASOLINE MODE - BI-FUEL VEHICLES ONLY
01-07-05 a.. CLIMATE CONTROL - FACTORY INSTALLED A/C PREP PACKAGE COMPONENT IDENTIFICATION AND WARRANTY COVERAGE - F-53 SUPER DUTY CLASS A MOTORHOME CHASSIS VEHICLES ONLY
01-07-04 a.. DRIVEABILITY - BI-FUEL VEHICLE COMMUNICATION LINK (VCL) AND ALTERNATIVE FUEL CONTROL MODULE (AFCM) TERMINOLOGY CLARIFICATION - BI-FUEL VEHICLES ONLY
01-05-03 a.. ELECTRICAL - TRAILER TOW WIRING - DIFFICULT TO LOCATE AT INSTRUMENT PANEL - VEHICLES BUILT 9/1/1999 THROUGH 10/4/2000 - RELOCATION PROCEDURE
01-04-09 a.. BRAKES - FRONT DISC BRAKE PAD AND/OR CALIPER RATTLE OVER BUMPS - REVISED FRONT BRAKE PADS b.. NOISE - RATTLE FROM FRONT DISC BRAKE PAD AND/OR CALIPER - REVISED FRONT BRAKE PADS
01-03-02 a.. STEERING - WANDERING/STIFF STEERING OR POOR RETURNABILITY AFTER TURNS - 4X4 VEHICLES ONLY b.. SUSPENSION - WANDERING/STIFF STEERING OR POOR RETURNABILITY AFTER TURNS - 4X4 VEHICLES ONLY
01-01-03 a.. ENGINE - "MISS" NOISE FROM EXHAUST - UPDATED EXHAUST Y-PIPE AVAILABLE - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 5.4L OR 6.8L ENGINE - BUILT THROUGH
9/10/2000 b.. EXHAUST - "MISS" NOISE FROM EXHAUST - UPDATED EXHAUST Y-PIPE AVAILABLE - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 5.4L OR 6.8L ENGINE - BUILT THROUGH 9/10/2000 c.. NOISE - "MISS" NOISE FROM EXHAUST - UPDATED EXHAUST Y-PIPE AVAILABLE - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 5.4L OR 6.8L ENGINE - BUILT THROUGH 9/10/2000
00-22-02 a.. STEERING - POWER STEERING PUMP BOLT - CORRECT PLACEMENT OF BOLTS AND WASHER - WINDSOR BUILT ENGINES ONLY b.. ENGINE - POWER STEERING PUMP BOLT - CORRECT PLACEMENT OF BOLTS AND WASHER - WINDSOR BUILT ENGINES ONLY
00-21-09 a.. SUSPENSION - VIBRATION/SHAKE FELT IN STEERING WHEEL OR SEAT 72-120 KM/H (45-75 MPH) b.. VIBRATION - VIBRATION/SHAKE FELT IN STEERING WHEEL OR SEAT
72-120 KM/H (45-75) MPH
I've talked to the service manager and the mechanic. The problem is that Ford's policy defines "adjustment" as tigthening or repositioning anything on the car that hasn't already fallen off.
To use an example, if the rear bumper came loose it's not covered under warranty. If the bumper fell off after coming loose, this is covered under warranty.
The service manager tried to explain to me that "service adjustments" are covered under the 3/36 warranty, but I used allignment and brake service as an example of when this wouldn't apply.
The dealer didn't turn the claim into Ford's warranty (insurance) program for processing, they denied the claim in house.
The fine details of the "premium care" warranty are interesting. The cross memember isn't explicitly mentioned as covered, but it's not explicitly mentioned as not covered either. I'm used to exclusionary or inclusionary warranties.. This one seems to be a bit of both.
Botling in place and gluing it in place does not sound like an "adjustment." An adjustment is turning a few bolts or screws so that it works better or is better aligned.
Next time you buy a vehicle, read the insurance policy carefully (it's not a warranty, but really insurance). And pocket the money yourself and do self-insurance. After a few vehicles, even if you get burned once or twice, you will be ahead. They sell these policies because they make money on them.
I still think the best thing to do is talk to the owner of the dealership (I forgot this before), then the factory rep and finally send a letter to Bill Ford. Depending on the cost of the repair, you could also sue them in small claims court and maybe get a lawyer. It might be cheaper to take it to an independent shop and get it done there, too. Less hassle, too. Don't forget to mention the NHTSA TSB.
That number you refer to as a Ford TSB number 15502 is very probably a Special Service Message. That freakin' NHTSA website (and a lot of other places) piles SSM's and TSB's in one big heap and calls them all TSB's. Not true. Anyway, the only way you'll get the full text of that thing is to pay for the research on NHTSA or get someone at a Ford dealer (or here) to run an OASIS report on the vehicle. Again, its not a TSB (as defined by Ford) and a place like Alldata won't have it. Sorry to hear of your issues with the truck. A cross-member repair of that fashion is one hell of an adjustment. I wish you luck.
----- Original Message ----- From: "I am me!" Newsgroups: alt.autos.ford Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 5:20 AM Subject: Re: Ford Extended Warranty Claim Denied w TSB! (ESPP - premium care)
"Adjustment "as in dealer warranty adjustment to pay for repair you shit for brains! "
So, where do you say a "warrant adjustment"? All I see is some crap about a cross member adjsutment. Shit for brains? Your the asshole that gets a "TSB" title with out paying for the information and goes to a dealership with only a title. How stupid are you?
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