Windstar 1998 unsatisfied customer

"Jeff" wrote in news:c9fl0c$ snipped-for-privacy@library2.airnews.net:

Every major nation for 10 years has said there were WMDs . No one could convince them all there own intel was wrong. so yes you are looking for the boogy man under every rock. It is not possiable to have the kind of conspiricy you claim, too many people involved to not have any slip ups. KB

"Thomas Moats" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Not all bad, not every kid has the capacity to go on. why pretend they are all the same and throw money at the low achievers and leave the smarter ones to be bored, focus on the kids that will lead the development of the sciences, instead of the lower end. The world is not fair, go for the best. KB

Every kid has the capacity to go on.

That is not the problem. All the kids are smart, or a better word intelligent. That is the ability to learn, which all kids have the ability. The problem today IS the teaching methods, something ( teaching ) that was left out of modern schools long ago. Look at the average "college grad", the ability of detective reasoning is all but gone. If the problem can not be defined by a code or symptom chart the average college grad is lost. Ever come across the phrase "so smart he is stupid"? "Book smart street stupid"?

Define "lower end".

No it's not, it never has been.

According to one of those old documents "All men are created equal." No one claims that people are the same. Only that each child deserves the best possible education. Even if you don't become a scientist or doctor, you still have the right to a good education. What if it only helps you make better financial decisions or be a better citizen by being an educated voter?

The problem is that they don't go for the best. Just the richest.

Why do you think that there are so few minority scientists and business leaders? Because minorities don't have the same oppurtunities that rich white kids have. It has nothing to do with ethnic groups or skin color. It has to do with money.

Jeff

Jeff

(...)

You mean like the ones they found in Iraq?

Really? Only that big rock in Texas. You know, the one that Bush's bodies at Enron live on.

What conspiracy do I claim?

Jeff

"Thomas Moats" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

We will have to disagree here. all kids are not able to go on. It is obvious kids mental capacity varies greatly, and instead of focusing on the bottom 1/3 lets help the top 1/3 do better. It will help all of socitiy not just each kid. The slower kids will not find the cure for cancer, the top ones will. I did not say ignore the bottom 1/3, just don`t throw massive amounts of money at them and think they will be equal, in history past they were put to manual jobs that needed doing, not everyone is capeable of being a doctor, ect. KB

I will agree here. the teaching methods really stink now. KB

"Jeff" wrote in news:c9j81o$ snipped-for-privacy@library2.airnews.net:

Boy have you been worked over. nowhere does it say any kid deserves a education, let alone the best one. A education is the parents responsibility. not the gov or anyone else for that mater. The liberals have made that claim against our money so they can just tax us more. I am for "public" education, not gov intruded education. or indoctrinated The gov has no inclination to represent the values we need to pass on to the children, it is against its best interest to do so. Gov. needs to be thrown out of education all together. There is a giant difference between gov. edu. and public edu. There shoud be no gov conection to education. All men are created equal, is equal opportunity not equal means. KB

No we do not have too.

Are you raciest as well?

So manual jobs are only for "slow" people? Only "slow" people should be working on things that can impact your life in a big way?

Damn good thing.

o we do not have too.

snip

Thats interesting, where do you get raceism from this???????? The fact that everyone is not mentally the same ability has nothing to do with skin color. looks like your reasoning ability has reached the edge if you have to resourt to the racist card for a factual item argument. KB

no it is the place where in history they served a good, valuable, and necessary place in socitiety. They were paid according to there worth, not slave wages either. They were accepted into the world at a level that was necessary and ok, not harped over and wasted vast amounts of resourses to be brought up to just average. KB

I figured that by your bigoted ideals that you would be, they tend to go hand in hand. I see noting factual in your statements. I see very bigoted statements.

Ok all slow people to the back of the bus!

(...)

Why not help all the kids do better?

Helping all the kids do better will help all kids.

The bottom ones will be more productive at whatever each one does.

I think the proportion of kids who go on to college is over 50%. I think every kid who is capable of going to college deserves a chance. And those who are not capable of going to college or not interested still deserve a good education in elementary school and high school.

Jeff

(...)

Not in the US. Primary and secondary education are the responsibility of the public schools, which is the government.

Actually, so that more kids can go to college. People who go to college earn considerably more money than those who don't. I wouldn't have my job now if I did not have a college education.

Many schools or school districts are run by city or county governments. In many other areas, they are their own local government unit.

I am afraid that you can't have it both ways. Without government funding, public education won't happen.

Jeff

A education is the parents

I will have to disagree somewhat. Under the Articles of Confederation (our first governing document 1776-1789) we set aside a portion of all land surveyed in the old Northwest territories for the purpose of funding public schooling. The founders frequently argued that only an educated populace could promote and protect the new republic and its ideals. So, public schooling has been seen as fundamental to the existence of our nation from the very beginning.

"Thomas Moats" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

You do not see any bigoted statements, only reality. Also you miss the point, we now are spending huge amounts of money to just try to bring everyone up to average, not everyone is average. Why not put some energy into makeing the best better. That is what historically has happened. the most emphas was placed on the best, not ignore the others, it is not a either or situtation. When has anything been made better by concenterating on the worst instead of the best. KB

Well, Archie, you really cleared that up. So tell us, just what level of achievement do you decided what is teachable or not? Define what you call "slow" or what ever term you use to describe what you call not good enough, bottom?

No, we are spending huge amounts of money to help each person reach his potential.

Good point. Look at all the kids out there who could use good mentors, can't afford college, or never had anyone tell them that they had potential outside the ghetto.

No. Historically, the emphasis has been placed on the kids with money. The ones without, have been ignored. There are a few lucky kids who don't have money who had the encouragement from parents, teachers or mentors to go to college (Ben Carson, a guy who opens people's heads for surgery is an example), but it comes down to money that people have, not talent.

Gee, look what the Army did in WWII when it accepted just about any boy who walked through the doors. Most of the soldiers were average.

Jeff

KB

"Thomas Moats" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

I guess I will give up on this thread, off topic anyway, you are not thinking this out, I have never said to quit teaching anyone, just put the extra $ and time into the best acheavers not the lowest, it has nothing to do with race or money or anything else. extra emphasis on the top 1/3 will pay dividends and wasting money concentrating on the bottom

"Jeff" wrote in news:c9ocjh$ snipped-for-privacy@library2.airnews.net:

No we are not, we are throwing vast amounts of money to help the challenged, not to encourege the overacheavers. The overacheavers are pretty much ignored because they are ok already.

as a side note, money with out talent does nothing. Why are you vindictive of people who have worked hard and got money. The fact they spend it on there kids to acheve and learn more is good. the fact everyone does not have that advantage is not a deploreable thing. (as long as they are not intenctionally held down) It is natural, anything else is communism. Reward the best, dont punish the rest. KB

This has nothing to do with the argument even!!!!! whats your point here?

"Reece Talley" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

That was "public" schooling, not governement school. big difference between the two. We have government schooling now not public schooling. I would love to get back to public school, but it probly won`t happen now. KB