2001 - 5.4 Diesel

run, don't walk

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:41:35 GMT, "Joe G" snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net posted that:

: :: :::> run, don't walk : :: :::>

Did I get an earful. After talking to the local Ford expert, (drive Fords all your life = expert) he says the timing chain is lacking oil at startup and if it sounds that bad it has been going on for a long time. This is a problem with the 5.4s when running the wrong oil filter. A Google search of Usenet verified this

So much for looking at Ford..

Probasco

Don't judge all Fords because of this one truck, take a look at something in a PowerStroke, you may find one in just your size. Like 446 cubes.

Good luck,

Spdloader

The diesel is a 6.0L. Older diesels (80's, early 90's) are 7.3L.

You should have heard my 2.9L BroncoII. It had a nice big hole in the muffler. Not quite the same rhythm though.

-D

I was using the proper Mobil 1 filter and would get a lot of valvetrain noise on start-up in my v10 for a second or two. Switched to Motorcraft filters and no more noise.

Sounds like there is more going on here than just the wrong filter. Maybe the oil's never been changed??

Some, especially the cheap ones, do not have a check valve in the filter so the engine does not get any oil for a few seconds. The motorcraft filter does have the check valve.

Bob

He started two other trucks (5.4 engines) on the lot, they also made this noise, just not as bad. The truck in question has a motorcraft FL-820s oil filter - (check valve).

No thanks to the PowerStroke - can't stand the smell and rattle.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:32:15 GMT, "Spdloader" snipped-for-privacy@nospam.triad.rr.com> posted that:

: :: :::> Don't judge all Fords because of this one truck, take a look at something in : :: :::> a PowerStroke, you may find one in just your size. : :: :::> Like 446 cubes. : :: :::> : :: :::> Good luck, : :: :::> : :: :::> Spdloader : :: :::>

It has the correct filter - FL-820s - this filter has the check valve to prevent bleed back (so I'm told). Supposed to have had the oil changed, It's on a dealers lot.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:44 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo" snipped-for-privacy@nospamplease.com posted that:

: :: :::> I was using the proper Mobil 1 filter and would get a lot of valvetrain : :: :::> noise on start-up in my v10 for a second or two. Switched to Motorcraft : :: :::> filters and no more noise. : :: :::> : :: :::> Sounds like there is more going on here than just the wrong filter. Maybe : :: :::> the oil's never been changed??

lol

I guess it is an acquired taste, but with the windows rolled up, AC on, and the XM tuned in properly, you can barely hear it..........

Spdloader

True, but a Mobil 1 filter isn't particularly cheap...but I consistently got that noise when using one.

Hmmmm, my 2001 PSD is a 7.3 (introduced in 1994). Prior to that was the

6.9. The 6.0 was released in 2003.

I always thought the same...

Leaving the engine running and it not interfering with your drive-up window transaction, was always my graphic determining divider...

BUT once you drive a new 6.0 Liter Turbo Diesel, You will truly be hard pressed to continue letting the slightly louder and slightly different smell excuses from keeping you away from those 325 ponies and 570 torque... Oh did I mention the much better fuel mileage than any of the gas engines?

I'm a gas engine guy from way back... I vacillated back and forth over which engine to order in my new truck. After much agony I decided to try my first automotive application diesel engine (Fords 6.0 Liter Turbo Diesel) I am SO glad I did not order the V-10 in my new 2005 6.0 Liter Turbo Diesel F-450...

:-)

Once you have tasted it, the pulling HEAVY weight up BIG hills, unequaled dominance that the monstrous low RPM torque producing turbo diesels have is very hard to do without.

Did I mention that turbo engines do not suffer that dreaded horsepower loss of 10% per 1000 feet of altitude gain that all naturally aspirated engines suffer from?

Please do yourself a BIG favor and test drive a "brand new" Power Stroke Diesel (just to really experience what you are missing out on) before you make your final decision...

FYI:

There is no noise because of the style (function) of the bypass valve used in Motorcraft filters. The upside to that bypass valve is it seems to flow more oil while cold. The downside is while it is opened (every cold start or when the filter is otherwise clogged) it flows totally UNFILTERED oil through your entire oiling system.

Some Ford NUTS I know will not use Motorcraft filters because of their bypass valves, I still use them myself....

Here is some comparitive info of the internet... These particular filter moldels are for the SHO not the V-10...

Motorcraft - FL400S The Motorcraft is made by Purolator for Ford and is the replacement part you can expect at dealerships. The sample we purchased was only $3. Unlike the Purolator, the bypass valve was on the other end, as per Ford specification.

The shell was as thin as the Purolator, or no thicker at .0085" which is nominally the same given the possible errors measuring the wall thickness of a curved can.

The filtering media is paper, I assume of tolerable quality. They use a lot of it, (204.5 sq. in). All in all, it is a well made product, but it is made to be sold as inexpensively as possible. The PuroOne has the bypass on the other end but perhaps better and more paper. So which one is the better of the two? I don't think the Puro is twice is good but these two filters, mentioned first, are at the bottom of the list.

One thing I learned about Ford oil filters is that they use better oil filters (from another source) at the factory for the owner to use as the engine is being broken in. Thank God!

Mobil 1 - ML209 (& M1-301 oversized)

Mobil 1 oil and oil filters have long had an outstanding reputation. The filters have a synthetic element media and the strongest shell on the market. The outside shell is .0195" thick on the large ML-301 or .0170" thick on the smaller ML209. Mobil 1 is maybe the most forthcoming with information since for a long time they have been the 100-year-old scotch of quality oil filters. They are proud of their "Hydrostatic Burst" values which are three times the SAE standard. Their "Pressure Impulse Cycles to Failure" values which are the highest, and only ones I have found; which mean the guts of the filter are made like a tank. The whole filter is an engineering exercise in loving design excess. Is it the best oil filter made or has anyone come up with a better design while Mobil 1 has rested on it's reputation? Lacking extensive and expensive laboratory tests I can only say Mobil Oil filters are somewhere in the top three, in a class of outstanding over achievers. Like all top shelf oil filters the going rate seems to be about $10 off the shelf or $9 if you can cheese a jobber price.

Wait 'til your buddies learn the hard way that any oil is better than no oil. Cold oil is very difficult to push thru a filter. I can't think of any engine that does not either use a bypass in the filter or a bypass in the filter head for this purpose. I have seen a couple of guys install a filter with no bypass on an engine that did not have it's own bypass with catastrophic results even in mild weather. Almost all Fords require a bypass in the filter. Another problem with no bypass where one should be used is split filter cases or broken oil pump drives.

Lugnut

Hold on one second doc, we're talking about anti bleed back valves, not bypass valves. Apparently the 5.4 has a hydraulic timing chain tensioner that bleeds off over time if the right filter isn't used, hence THE NOISE.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:44:09 GMT, "351CJ" snipped-for-privacy@msn.com posted that:

: :: :::> FYI: : :: :::> : :: :::> There is no noise because of the style (function) of the bypass valve used : :: :::> in Motorcraft filters. : :: :::> The upside to that bypass valve is it seems to flow more oil while cold. : :: :::> The downside is while it is opened (every cold start or when the filter is : :: :::> otherwise clogged) it flows totally UNFILTERED oil through your entire : :: :::> oiling system.

=== SNIP ===

Yeah. I didn't know for sure which he was talking about but, I tried to address the bypass valve problem - or the lack thereof being a real problem. The lack of an anti-drainback valve is not good but, usually only results in late oil supply as opposed to no oil supply. Ford filters have both the anti-drain and a bypass valve. I think the anti-drain valve is probably a good idea even if it is not required in certain applications just to make sure oil is available as quickly as possible.

Lugnut

060907000103040007050906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks for straighten> 7.3 was introduced in 1988. 87 was the last year for the 6.9

Yes, thanks (both of you) for better specifics. I do know that 1994 was a year of change for the diesel (or so I've read) starting with naturally aspirated, then turbo, and then powerstroke.

-D