302 interchangeability?

Hello again,

Everyone did so well answering my question about my electrical 4WD problem that I thought I would pose a new question:

What interchangeability issues exist when swapping a newer 302 into a 1988 Bronco (also a 302).

My motor is pretty tired, so I was thinking about picking up a Mustang/Thunderbird/Truck motor and just swapping it in, rather than spending the time to rebuild what I have.

The question is whether or not that will be easy in the age of computerized engine management and sensors for everything.

Say for example, I found an early 90's Thunderbird with a 5L. Are there extra sensors on the newer motor, or are there components from my motor that no longer exist on the newer motor?

And if so....how do I go about addressing that? The Bronco has a huge mess of emissions-type stuff (for example: that stupid "coffee can" thing that is rusted out on every truck and Bronco I've looked at). Do I really NEED it all in order to get the truck to run properly. And what is a GOOD solution (i.e. not "yank it all, and then don't ever drive on a public road because your truck is no longer emissions legal") if I have to disconnect some of these things because they don't mate up with anything on the newer motor.

Conversely, if a newer motor has sensors or hookups that the old motor never had, how can I address that?

I'm used to working on my '71 Satellite, so for me it is pretty easy to swap a motor. I'm hoping someone can shed light on whether a motor swap in the Bronco is a worthwhile endeavour.

And while we're at it, even if I keep my old motor, are there things that can be safely disconnected under the hood? Do I really need all that emissions-era junk for the motor to run properly?

Thanks a lot for your help. Feel free to email me at snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com.

Chris

Reply to
Chris
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computerized

Reply to
Tom

The 5.0 HO has a different firing order, thus a different camshaft.

Reply to
Michael O

||Hello again, || ||Everyone did so well answering my question about my electrical 4WD problem ||that I thought I would pose a new question: || ||What interchangeability issues exist when swapping a newer 302 into a 1988 ||Bronco (also a 302). || ||My motor is pretty tired, so I was thinking about picking up a ||Mustang/Thunderbird/Truck motor and just swapping it in, rather than ||spending the time to rebuild what I have. || ||The question is whether or not that will be easy in the age of computerized ||engine management and sensors for everything. || || ||Say for example, I found an early 90's Thunderbird with a 5L. Are there ||extra sensors on the newer motor, or are there components from my motor that ||no longer exist on the newer motor? || ||And if so....how do I go about addressing that? The Bronco has a huge mess ||of emissions-type stuff (for example: that stupid "coffee can" thing that is ||rusted out on every truck and Bronco I've looked at). Do I really NEED it ||all in order to get the truck to run properly. And what is a GOOD solution ||(i.e. not "yank it all, and then don't ever drive on a public road because ||your truck is no longer emissions legal") if I have to disconnect some of ||these things because they don't mate up with anything on the newer motor. || ||Conversely, if a newer motor has sensors or hookups that the old motor never ||had, how can I address that?

You can usually buy a pulled motor with wiring harness and ECM, should need anything else beyond a catalytic convertor.

Not sure what "coffee can thing" you mean. If it's a evaporative emissions purcge cannister, then you probably should keep it. If it's a vacuum reservoir, then you should keep it for sure. Texas Parts Guy

Reply to
Rex B

computerized

Chris,

Be cautious of replacing your tired used old engine that you know what is wrong with it and how it has been used and cared for, with another tired used old engine you know nothing about...

Reply to
351CJ

Not all 5.0L's are the same. Physically bolting in is easy enough by simply using all of you old engine sensors and controls to match up. One major problem is that the %.OL HO has the same firing order as a 351W which makes no difference in application as long as you have the correct firing order for the plug wires to match the cam. You 88 Bronco has a flat tappet cam while the Mustangs were roller cam from 88 up IIRC. The trucks went to a roller setup in '93 IIRC. The 5.0L was used up thru the '96 year in trucks and '93 in cars. If you get a roller motor as a replacement, you may encounter some driveability problems or different performance characteristics as the roller cams are a bit more aggressive than the flat tappet cams. Your best match will be the '87 thur '92 5.0L flat tappet truck engine. The '93 thru '96 truck roller engine will also work fine. The Mustang HO engines will get you a definite performance boost but, the ECM may have a problem properly controlling the idle because of the much more aggressive cam.

Reply to
lugnut

If it were me, I'd just buy a rebuilt long block of the same year series block you have, swap em out, keeping everthing you have as original. And be done with it. Still legal, and a new running vehicle. Actually rebuilding what you have is probably the best overall route, but I've found it usually costs more than just swapping a different long block. IE: I can get better deals on pre-built long blocks , than I can get an estimate to rebuild what I have. I went through this a couple of years ago, when I spun a bearing. I swapped a different long block of the same series block, and kept all as original. So far, it's run fine. I don't know about the 302, but the 300 blocks do vary in minor ways, and they made three series of 300 blocks, heads, etc..Whatever...I know there are differences between EFI and the old carb engine I have. IE: no fuel pump provision on a EFI block..So be careful.. If you get exactly what you need, you won't have to worry. Like one said, just swap everything over to the new engine. And yes, most cars need all that stuff, as they were designed that way, using puterw, etc, and if you gotta smog test, you don't want any nasty surprises on a test. IE: Smog tech bellows, "this car has been smog butchered. Don't pass go, don't collect $200, and you've lost your "get out of jail free" card. " Go home. They are fairly anal here in Houston. Our tests rival CA. any day...Thats one reason I like to drive a 1968 truck. "anything over 25 years old is exempt" I get to thumb my nose at them. I also get inspection for 12.50 instead of $40.00 plus...Of course, with my new engine, I ain't driving no smoking gross polluter by any means. You can get roadside laser flagged for a smoker, no matter the year, I think... MK

Reply to
Mark Keith

computerized

Reply to
Tom

||fine. The Mustang HO engines will get you a definite ||performance boost but, the ECM may have a problem properly ||controlling the idle because of the much more aggressive ||cam.

Is there a downside to swapping in a Mustang HO motor to gain the power, assuming you use the ECM for the HO motor? My application is a '94 F150 4x4.

Good information, thanks for posting.

Texas Parts Guy

Reply to
Rex B

Your problem may be more with the trans than the engine swap if you have the E4OD trans. You will need the truck ECM to control it and need to use the stock harness and sensors from the truck. The stang motor is SEFI. I do not recall whether that year truck was SEFI or batch fired injection. If the truck has mass air with a 4R70W trans, it is likely SEFI also. I do not recall the setup when the E4OD is part of the setup. You will have no problem swapping in the 'Stang motor using the truck controls, sensors and ECM but, you may not get all the benefit w/o the SEFI. You may have a mismatch if you have the electronic 4x4 setup. The engine would still work using the truck electronics, etc. The 'Stang ECM will not control an E4OD trans. If you have the

4R70W trans and decide to try it with the 'Stang ECM, make sure you have the correct impedance trans circuit board and solenoids for the ECM or the ECM will fry. If you are dealing with a 5.0L 'Stang setup as the donor, you should be OK on the impedance match. IIRC, the change happened in '96.

Maybe someone else here has a bit more insight.

Reply to
lugnut

everybodys right 302 is 302 i just put one out of a 84 ltd into my 69 pick up

Reply to
carl nall

The 300CI 6 banger is classed as a 5.0L. ;)

And the 302 H.O. has more than fire order and cam differences, there are some minor fit changes as well on the pipe and tube work. It will work but takes more work.

IMHO a poster above in the parent thread said it right. Why swap out an engine you know and have taken care of for one you know nothing about?

Rebuild what you have if it needs it. In the short run it may cost you a few extra bucks and a bit more time, but in the long run it will save you both. Plus it will give you a bit more pride in what you own.

As with all my posts, take what is useful to you and use it, discard the rest.

M.L. Undercofler Proud to drive my 1982 F100 past 109,000 and my 1992 Topaz past 257,000 knowing I did what it took to keep them running.

Reply to
Mike Undercofler

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 22:24:57 -0400, Mike Undercofler rearranged some electrons to form:

Nope, the 300 straight 6 is actually a 4.9L.

Reply to
David M

I hope you used the flex plate that goes with the 84 engine. There is a major difference.

Reply to
lugnut

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