89 F150 Ignition timing Problem

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:18:37 -0700, Alain rearranged some electrons to form:

Are you positive you have the wires in the right order (you did check which direction the rotor is turning, right?)

Also, I believe the correct firing order is 153624. That might explain a lot.

Yep, firing order is 1,5,3,6,2,4

Spdloader

Because the poster states he moves the distributor a "notch" which I take to mean a gear tooth, how about a busted shear pin holding the distributor gear to the shaft? other possibilities that come to mind, extremely worn gear on the dist, or cam gear missing teeth.

Whitelightning

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 03:11:22 +0000, Whitelightning rearranged some electrons to form:

Or plug wires routed incorrectly.

I will recheck the firing order based on the replies given. However the truck was running fine for more than year before the muffler exploding incident. The distributor gear show slight signs of wear but nothing indicating a problem. I am left with the camshaft gear , the part visible from the distributor shaft looks OK but I can only see part of it. Thanks for the hints.

David M wrote:

Have you checked to see if the distributor gear has rotated on the shaft? I have had this happen to me with a 4cyl 2.3l turbo engine. The car backfired and then would not run. Unbeknownst to me, the timing had shifted by many degrees which was just baffling. The distributor gear was held attached to the shaft with a small steel pin which sheared. the gear was tight enough that it stayed on the shaft and turned the distributor but it was in the wrong position.

I was 60 kms from the nearest town on the Alaska highway and it took an entire day to get a tow truck. The guys at the shop managed to get it running again and thought the distributor had shifted somehow. I managed to get it 1200 kms back home to Vancouver where it backfired again and stopped running.

I took it to the Ford dealership (I had an purchased an extended used car warranty) and it took them two days to figure out that the pin on the distributor gear had sheared. Both ends of the pin were still in the gear and the middle was still in the shaft but the pinn was in three pieces.

Don't know if your distributor has the same type of gear pin but it might be worth a look.

Stephen N.

Ala> I will recheck the firing order based on the replies given. However the

Hmmm, coming into the thread late, I didn't notice that whitelightning had just suggested check what I related in my post below. Well then, I second it!

Stephen N. ---> should'a paid attenti> Have you checked to see if the distributor gear has rotated on the

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:43:33 +0000, Stephen N. rearranged some electrons to form:

OP: "1 4 2 6 3 5 just as required" Firing order of 4.9 I6: 153624

I think this is more likely the problem rather than slipping gears.

I thought he said it was running until it backfired. The clue is:

"If I rotate my distributor one notch at a time , I end up being able to fire start the engine. But unless I rotate slowly by hand the distributor as the egine runs it dies. I keep doing the same thing other and other and it start. Eentually my distributor had been rotated 360 degrees. I was not able to figure out why the timing keeps changing."

This sounds like the gear is slowly slipping on the shaft. He doesn't say he re-arranged the leads so it likely isn't improper firing order. He may have a different firing order on his engine or he is counting wrong.

Stephen N.

">> OP: "1 4 2 6 3 5 just as required"

Actually, you're right, he IS counting wrong, he IS starting with 1 correctly, but counting BACKWARDS on the distributor.

Good job, Stephen!

Spdloader

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 02:04:56 +0000, Spdloader rearranged some electrons to form:

Hmmmm.... Oh yeah!! Good job, Stephen!

Yeah, it looked like that. I had a quick peek online but I couldn't find that firing order but I did notice that the sequence was backwards to the norm. Oddly, Ford counts the cylinders differently than GM and that has made for some interesting moments as well.

I still think the OP should check that gear before he starts tearing anything apart or letting the Ford guys at it @$112/hour.

Stephen N.

It's an inline 6 cylinder, Ford numbered them the same as every other manufacturer that had an inline 6.

I was actually thinking of the way ford numbers it's V8s, that is, 1234 on one side and 5678 on the other rather than 1357 and 2468 the way GM and I think most others do.

But I think you are right on the inline 6s, as far as I know no one numbered inline engines from back to front.

Stephen N.

Keep in mind that I was driving 60 mph when the muffler explodes and the engines shuts off. Towed back home the engine would crank but not explosion. That is when I replaced ignition related parts one at a time. running out of options I rotated the distributor one gear at a time. I eventually got the engine started but it was not sustainable. I had to also rotate the distributor head by hand to keep up with the timing. I eventually run out of range and the engine dies. I change the distributor position by one gear counterclock wise , rotate the head of distributor clockwise full motion and start the engine. it starts rough and as i rotate the head of distributor counterclock wise I get a good timing. Short live I have to keep rotating the head couterclowise to keep up. After chekcking neswgroup and mechanics with good advices, I was told to replace my timing gear. "A known problem on timing issues". Well my timing gears are in very good shape. There is not indication that there is slippage there. So I am back to square one. It could be the camshaft gear rotating the distributor that is faulty but I can not see the entire perimeter. what I see through the distributor shaft is fine. I will keep looking. Eventually I ll figure it out then will post the solution.

thanks to all.

Stephen N. wrote:

When I reported the firing order I displayed it backwards reading the wires counterclowise starting with 1 counterclock wise it read 1 4 2 6 3 5 starting with 1 clockwise it reads 1 5 3 6 2 4. My mistake for now reporting it right, but the wiring is as it should be.

Ala> Keep in mind that I was driving 60 mph when the muffler explodes and

As you describe it, there's something that's slipping for sure. I actually had a car once where the sheer pin didn't sheer, but the slot it fit into got larger and allowed the crank pulley to turn. It was very hard to find.

I say that, not because I think that's your problem, but to say that you have a problem that's not easily visible. If I read your below quoted post right, you didnt' change the timing gear. It's possible that a sheer pin is sheared on one of the pulleys, causing the continual slippage you describe. The same problem could exist in the distributor. You're just going to have to find what's turning on its shaft.

The fact that the thing backfired when it quit working is an important clue. I doubt that the backfire cause the engine problem, but rather the opposite. The sudden change in timing caused the backfire. You're obviously looking for a timing problem, and it's almost surely a sheer pin somewhere.

CJB

Alain, the problem you describe is perfectly in line with what I have said below. The teeth of the timing gear on the shaft may be fine, the shaft is fine but the two are NOT ATTACHED. The gear is slipping on the shaft. The reason you have to rotate the distributor is because the position of the gear on the shaft is changing. You might be able to check this by trying to rotate the distributor with the engine off.

It has been described here a couple of times that the gear is likely locked to the shaft with a key or shear pin. If the key or pin is broken only friction is keeping it from rotating on the distributor shaft. Check that before you go any further.

Stpehen N.

Ala> Keep in mind that I was driving 60 mph when the muffler explodes and